Mixing advice

DeadDiscoDildo · 02.05.2009, 01:29 AM

Could I get yr guys/girls opinions on these two mixes me and my band are doing? This is our first full length so its a DIY project. I've spent so much time with it the past few months I am a bit numb to how it really sounds, ya know?

Unfortunately I don't have two different mixes of the same song, but this should help enough.

The first is how all of them are:

"around the barn"
http://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/cm3tn6

vs

This one is a test of what we might do to all of them, but can't tell if it cleaned it up..or just made it sterile...:

hot damn

http://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/6tj5ng

this goes for listeners or people who have experience with it. I figure this is the best place to ask outside of my local circle...

cheers!

atsonicpark · 02.05.2009, 05:36 AM

I think "around the barn" sounds really great... maybe turn the guitars up a wee bit. Can you turn up the snare drum a bit too? Otherwise, it sounds great. Not muddy at all.

"Hot Damn".. let's see... the bass is reeeeeeally low in the mix, and turn up the snare a bit, otherwise it sounds great.

terminal pharmacy · 02.05.2009, 05:39 AM

shall have a listen and comment on the morrow.

nicfit · 02.05.2009, 06:01 AM

Methinks the more "slick" and open sound of Hot Damn suits the style better. I'd make the bass and drums (+hand claps) stand out a bit more, the gtr on the L channel is a bit too high and maybe a little too much "to the left", it gets a bit distracting in the less "full" bits of the song.

The rough edit is a bit too muddy, sounds a bit "closed". The effect isn't bad but I think it does not reflect the overall feeling of the composition. Really nice songs, btw!!
Remind me a bit of a favourite o mine, good ol Starlight Mints. With a wiff of Sluts of Trust added.
Both are BIG positive points in my book.

p.s. I'm not an expert in production/mixing, take it just as an opinion of a guy who listens to lot of music.
p.p.s. Listen to terminal pharmacy advices!! (even if I think he's more expert in live sound mixing rather than studio recordings, but he surely knows the subject).

atsonicpark · 02.05.2009, 06:03 AM

It won't matter how you mix it, people will be using the products from http://www.nathanmarciniak.com/elemental/ to make it sound better sounding than it ever could be from any "production"!

atsonicpark · 02.05.2009, 11:37 AM

DeadDiscoDildo · 02.05.2009, 02:44 PM

Hey thanks guys, all good advice. Yeah, the problem was when we did the test to clean it up abit, I forgot that Hot Damn is differently mixed than all of the other songs.

We did all the songs live in two days in this abandoned church sanctuary, then I overdubbed vocals and other things but rhythm bass and drums were all live. Hot damn I added a second rhythm over the heavy parts, and we panned it left and right. We mic'd the guitars and vocals tho, with 3 mics for each track in strategic places, so like around the barn has one mic on the left and one mic on the right etc. but it's one track.

I wanted to get that vintage vibe, but it kind of sounds like the whole mix was under a pillow, so we're trying to make it vintage without BEING vintage.

if that makes sense.

Thanks for the kind words about our music too! & please if anyone has any other opinions, negative or positive, I would love to hear them! u guys are great,

cheers!

DeadDiscoDildo · 02.05.2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

It won't matter how you mix it, people will be using the products from http://www.nathanmarciniak.com/elemental/ to make it sound better sounding than it ever could be from any "production"!

hahaha

02.05.2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicfit

Methinks the more "slick" and open sound of Hot Damn suits the style better. I'd make the bass and drums (+hand claps) stand out a bit more, the gtr on the L channel is a bit too high and maybe a little too much "to the left", it gets a bit distracting in the less "full" bits of the song.

The rough edit is a bit too muddy, sounds a bit "closed". The effect isn't bad but I think it does not reflect the overall feeling of the composition. Really nice songs, btw!!

I totally agree with this!
from start to finish

terminal pharmacy · 02.05.2009, 11:37 PM

ATB Rough Edit..... Ok It sounds to me like a decent amount of the mud is coming from mic placement issues. The drums are really missing any life. Of couse this could be a bi product of the mics used. The whole mix seems to hang a bit heavy on the left hand side. What did you record with? There are some little tricks that can be used to give a bit of seperation between the instruments. Using sidechain compression between the kick drum and the bass can help to seperate those a bit. Sidechain can be a bit tricky but the results can be awesome. You can use the signal from the bass to compress the kick drum when it hits threshold and vice versa. You can also run an eq in line with the comp so both units/plugins are doing there job when the threshold is hit. I can't hear any abmient sound at all, a couple of rooms mics will really help, particularly with this style of music. Room mics can help give the allusion of some air in the mix. The bass probably needs to come up a little. Some of the problems with the bass and drums in the mix seem to be because the drum groove is quite tom based and the toms are tuned quite close to the register the bass is playing in. The vocals have a bit too much reverb for my liking, but less reverb on this track probably wouldn't work as well. What predaly did you have set on the reverb? Giving the predaly a tweak on the vox verb might help a bit as well, I usually give a predaly of about 40ms. Just in case you don't know predelay is the time it takes to hear the first reflection. Too much reverb can make things sound really 80s.

Hot Damn: This mix is much better quite a bit more seperation. Again I feel the left guit is a bit to forward. Again you can use the kick to trigger a compressor on the bass and make it punch through a bit more. As for the bass sound it is a bit round and clean for my liking. The drums have much more life than the other track, some of the mids have reappeared and breathed a bit of life in. I'm not sure I like how the vox sit in this one. if i were to draw the mix i would draw it in a diamond with the drums in the front, the guitars either side, the bass in the centre and the vox at the rear. I'm not sure that sits right for me, I know like anything you don't want the vocals sitting right outfront like Nikelback or some shit like that, but I'm not sure sitting where they are is as effective as could be. When mixing have a listen in mono as well to help you with the balance, depends on what you are mixing on though somesoftware and hardware doesn't have that capability.

Good stuff though.......

DeadDiscoDildo · 02.05.2009, 11:53 PM

That's what I was looking for. Thanks alot for that, I'll just copy and paste and send it to our engineer. Yeah, I was worried about it at first too as far as mic placement goes. I wanted to do the albini minmal drum micing but we did it in a church sanctuary and we had to put more mic's on the drums to have more control, at least the toms. Because there was TOO much natural reverb on them. Some songs had a room mic turned on, I'm not sure if either of these samples did. but one way we've been solving that is soloing the drums and blasting it thru speakers and then micing those and adding it to the mix. Like the room mic was there all along. It worked well. But overall we couldn't figure out the muddy/under a blanket problem.

Thanks alot for taking the time to analyze these for me, u know yr shit! Our engineer hasn't been doing this very long but he's a friend of a friend and we got the deal for free. Plus it's a sick space. so it was worth it. This should help alot. I was going for an in utero vibe meets piper at the gates early pink floyd vibe as far as production goes.

CHEERS!

DeadDiscoDildo · 02.05.2009, 11:55 PM

oh and that early beatles warm, massive reverb on the vocals. the song anna comes to mind...maybe alittle bit of the electric prunes too

terminal pharmacy · 02.06.2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadDiscoDildo

That's what I was looking for. Thanks alot for that, I'll just copy and paste and send it to our engineer. Yeah, I was worried about it at first too as far as mic placement goes. I wanted to do the albini minmal drum micing but we did it in a church sanctuary and we had to put more mic's on the drums to have more control, at least the toms. Because there was TOO much natural reverb on them. Some songs had a room mic turned on, I'm not sure if either of these samples did. but one way we've been solving that is soloing the drums and blasting it thru speakers and then micing those and adding it to the mix. Like the room mic was there all along. It worked well. But overall we couldn't figure out the muddy/under a blanket problem.

Thanks alot for taking the time to analyze these for me, u know yr shit! Our engineer hasn't been doing this very long but he's a friend of a friend and we got the deal for free. Plus it's a sick space. so it was worth it. This should help alot. I was going for an in utero vibe meets piper at the gates early pink floyd vibe as far as production goes.

CHEERS!

Bare in mind that room mics usually need to be time aligned to the other tracks otherwise you will get a delay that usually doesn't sound to great......

DeadDiscoDildo · 02.06.2009, 10:09 PM

Yeah we have enough space at the beginning of the songs to properly hit record and give leeway to move the track around to match it perfectly.

02.05.2009, 01:29 AM	#1
DeadDiscoDildo invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,805	Could I get yr guys/girls opinions on these two mixes me and my band are doing? This is our first full length so its a DIY project. I've spent so much time with it the past few months I am a bit numb to how it really sounds, ya know? Unfortunately I don't have two different mixes of the same song, but this should help enough. The first is how all of them are: "around the barn" http://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/cm3tn6 vs This one is a test of what we might do to all of them, but can't tell if it cleaned it up..or just made it sterile...: hot damn http://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/6tj5ng this goes for listeners or people who have experience with it. I figure this is the best place to ask outside of my local circle... cheers!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

02.05.2009, 05:36 AM	#2
atsonicpark invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 28,843	I think "around the barn" sounds really great... maybe turn the guitars up a wee bit. Can you turn up the snare drum a bit too? Otherwise, it sounds great. Not muddy at all. "Hot Damn".. let's see... the bass is reeeeeeally low in the mix, and turn up the snare a bit, otherwise it sounds great. __________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

02.05.2009, 05:39 AM	#3
terminal pharmacy invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 3,358	shall have a listen and comment on the morrow.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

02.05.2009, 06:01 AM	#4
nicfit invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: banana boat Posts: 15,570	Methinks the more "slick" and open sound of Hot Damn suits the style better. I'd make the bass and drums (+hand claps) stand out a bit more, the gtr on the L channel is a bit too high and maybe a little too much "to the left", it gets a bit distracting in the less "full" bits of the song. The rough edit is a bit too muddy, sounds a bit "closed". The effect isn't bad but I think it does not reflect the overall feeling of the composition. Really nice songs, btw!! Remind me a bit of a favourite o mine, good ol Starlight Mints. With a wiff of Sluts of Trust added. Both are BIG positive points in my book. p.s. I'm not an expert in production/mixing, take it just as an opinion of a guy who listens to lot of music. p.p.s. Listen to terminal pharmacy advices!! (even if I think he's more expert in live sound mixing rather than studio recordings, but he surely knows the subject). __________________ 11:11 11-11-11 I Ascended.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

02.05.2009, 06:03 AM	#5
atsonicpark invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 28,843	It won't matter how you mix it, people will be using the products from http://www.nathanmarciniak.com/elemental/ to make it sound better sounding than it ever could be from any "production"! __________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

02.05.2009, 11:37 AM	#6
atsonicpark invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 28,843	__________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

02.05.2009, 02:44 PM	#7
DeadDiscoDildo invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,805	Hey thanks guys, all good advice. Yeah, the problem was when we did the test to clean it up abit, I forgot that Hot Damn is differently mixed than all of the other songs. We did all the songs live in two days in this abandoned church sanctuary, then I overdubbed vocals and other things but rhythm bass and drums were all live. Hot damn I added a second rhythm over the heavy parts, and we panned it left and right. We mic'd the guitars and vocals tho, with 3 mics for each track in strategic places, so like around the barn has one mic on the left and one mic on the right etc. but it's one track. I wanted to get that vintage vibe, but it kind of sounds like the whole mix was under a pillow, so we're trying to make it vintage without BEING vintage. if that makes sense. Thanks for the kind words about our music too! & please if anyone has any other opinions, negative or positive, I would love to hear them! u guys are great, cheers!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

02.05.2009, 11:37 PM	#10
terminal pharmacy invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 3,358	ATB Rough Edit..... Ok It sounds to me like a decent amount of the mud is coming from mic placement issues. The drums are really missing any life. Of couse this could be a bi product of the mics used. The whole mix seems to hang a bit heavy on the left hand side. What did you record with? There are some little tricks that can be used to give a bit of seperation between the instruments. Using sidechain compression between the kick drum and the bass can help to seperate those a bit. Sidechain can be a bit tricky but the results can be awesome. You can use the signal from the bass to compress the kick drum when it hits threshold and vice versa. You can also run an eq in line with the comp so both units/plugins are doing there job when the threshold is hit. I can't hear any abmient sound at all, a couple of rooms mics will really help, particularly with this style of music. Room mics can help give the allusion of some air in the mix. The bass probably needs to come up a little. Some of the problems with the bass and drums in the mix seem to be because the drum groove is quite tom based and the toms are tuned quite close to the register the bass is playing in. The vocals have a bit too much reverb for my liking, but less reverb on this track probably wouldn't work as well. What predaly did you have set on the reverb? Giving the predaly a tweak on the vox verb might help a bit as well, I usually give a predaly of about 40ms. Just in case you don't know predelay is the time it takes to hear the first reflection. Too much reverb can make things sound really 80s. Hot Damn: This mix is much better quite a bit more seperation. Again I feel the left guit is a bit to forward. Again you can use the kick to trigger a compressor on the bass and make it punch through a bit more. As for the bass sound it is a bit round and clean for my liking. The drums have much more life than the other track, some of the mids have reappeared and breathed a bit of life in. I'm not sure I like how the vox sit in this one. if i were to draw the mix i would draw it in a diamond with the drums in the front, the guitars either side, the bass in the centre and the vox at the rear. I'm not sure that sits right for me, I know like anything you don't want the vocals sitting right outfront like Nikelback or some shit like that, but I'm not sure sitting where they are is as effective as could be. When mixing have a listen in mono as well to help you with the balance, depends on what you are mixing on though somesoftware and hardware doesn't have that capability. Good stuff though.......
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

02.05.2009, 11:53 PM	#11
DeadDiscoDildo invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,805	That's what I was looking for. Thanks alot for that, I'll just copy and paste and send it to our engineer. Yeah, I was worried about it at first too as far as mic placement goes. I wanted to do the albini minmal drum micing but we did it in a church sanctuary and we had to put more mic's on the drums to have more control, at least the toms. Because there was TOO much natural reverb on them. Some songs had a room mic turned on, I'm not sure if either of these samples did. but one way we've been solving that is soloing the drums and blasting it thru speakers and then micing those and adding it to the mix. Like the room mic was there all along. It worked well. But overall we couldn't figure out the muddy/under a blanket problem. Thanks alot for taking the time to analyze these for me, u know yr shit! Our engineer hasn't been doing this very long but he's a friend of a friend and we got the deal for free. Plus it's a sick space. so it was worth it. This should help alot. I was going for an in utero vibe meets piper at the gates early pink floyd vibe as far as production goes. CHEERS!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

02.05.2009, 11:55 PM	#12
DeadDiscoDildo invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,805	oh and that early beatles warm, massive reverb on the vocals. the song anna comes to mind...maybe alittle bit of the electric prunes too
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

02.06.2009, 10:09 PM	#14
DeadDiscoDildo invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,805	Yeah we have enough space at the beginning of the songs to properly hit record and give leeway to move the track around to match it perfectly.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|