[m1rr0r dash]

when reading Plato in English, one encounters the words "the gods" and "God," sometimes in close proximity. in many other places of course, myriad gods are mentioned by name.

in my best understanding the Athenians were polytheistic and would have no need for a word meaning "God," unless that is the proper name of a god.

is this a case of a translator proselytizing by inserting the notion of a Christian god into a text in which such a notion has no place? or is there some ancient Greek word which meant "a single omnipotent deity who oversaw everything" other than the name of Zeus, which as a proper name should be left untranslated?

__________________
evidence that the translator(s) may have been misguided or simply morons:

"For measurements, money, etc., the Greek terms have been substituted for modern equivalents (such as furlong and shilling)."

[floatingslowly]

I would have guessed Athena, but what do I know?

*spits on shirt*

[m1rr0r dash]

spitting > drooling

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by m1rr0r dash

when reading Plato in English, one encounters the words "the gods" and "God," sometimes in close proximity. in many other places of course, myriad gods are mentioned by name.

in my best understanding the Athenians were polytheistic and would have no need for a word meaning "God," unless that is the proper name of a god.

is this a case of a translator proselytizing by inserting the notion of a Christian god into a text in which such a notion has no place? or is there some ancient Greek word which meant "a single omnipotent deity who oversaw everything" other than the name of Zeus, which as a proper name should be left untranslated?

__________________
evidence that the translator(s) may have been misguided or simply morons:

"For measurements, money, etc., the Greek terms have been substituted for modern equivalents (such as furlong and shilling)."

oh. what version are you using?
shit man, i need to go fetch my books. living in a library-less house stresses me the fuck out.

[m1rr0r dash]

 

[Rob Instigator]

Plato in english means PLATE

[pbradley]

Well if you read Aristotle, there is a concept of a singular force (the prime mover) that has been attributed as "God" that is fundamental to the basis of his metaphysics. So the concept was there, or at least a comparable one, in their time I would think. Though you would be better off asking an ancient Greek historian. My suspicion is that there really was no huge problem between speaking of one god or a multitude when it came to intellectual circles while the multiple gods were more public sphere.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by m1rr0r dash

 

ah fuck i believe i have the same one, but a blue cover.

GOD. i dont know about htis fucking plato though. he irks me.

[!@#$%!]

as usual, google to the rescue

http://plato-dialogues.org/email/960211_1.htm

[Rob Instigator]

aristotle fucked everything up for 2000 years
we are still suffering through is yes/no duality logic. fucking greek asshole.
most answers in life turn out to be "maybe"

[m1rr0r dash]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Well if you read Aristotle, there is a concept of a singular force (the prime mover) that has been attributed as "God" that is fundamental to the basis of his metaphysics. So the concept was there, or at least a comparable one, in their time I would think. Though you would be better off asking an ancient Greek historian.

i haven't yet read Aristotle carefully... although i remember this "prime mover" thingie from hist. of phil.

thanks for the tip.

Originally Posted by pbradley

My suspicion is that there really was no huge problem between speaking of one god or a multitude when it came to intellectual circles while the multiple gods were more public sphere.

i agree with you... though it seems then it should be left with lower case when singular, i.e. "god"

...also phrases like "the providence of God" and "since God points out the way," start to seem suspect... though i'm sure the concepts were extant in ancient greece, the phrasing seem reliant on Christian cliche.

[acousticrock87]

Well the way I read it, Plato's ideas generally amounted to a singular God-type entity. From what I understand, ancient Greek has a shitload of declension stuff, so I imagine they have a plural and singular for the word "gods". Also, in Hebrew the word "God" was technically plural. My guess is that he really did use a singular word for (or at least comparable to the Christian word for) God, but that the capitalization and representation of the word were pushed a little.

I have a friend who knows ancient Greek who I could ask, but he's out of the country and texting this kind of question would be obnoxious.

[m1rr0r dash]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

as usual, google to the rescue

http://plato-dialogues.org/email/960211_1.htm

as i thought... fucking translators....

[m1rr0r dash]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

GOD. i dont know about this fucking plato though. he irks me.

i knew i should have stuck to derrida....

 

...the thing that irks you about Plato might be that he has three arms, one of which holds a knife. also he whispers in the one armed man's ear everything he wants transcribed, attributing his own words to this supposed Socrates.


never trust a three armed man with a knife.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by m1rr0r dash

...also phrases like "the providence of God" and "since God points out the way," start to seem suspect... though i'm sure the concepts were extant in ancient greece, the phrasing seem reliant on Christian cliche.

That could be more from the medieval translators than your copy. I don't see a translator credit across it.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by m1rr0r dash

...

in my best understanding the Athenians were polytheistic and would have no need for a word meaning "God," unless that is the proper name of a god...

True, most Athenians didn't, but Socrates, however, did. Such discussion of a singular God and Oneness is a primary reason why the wise man was convicted by the Council of 500 and executed by hemlock. Still, yours is an excellent question and the explanation may very well be a problem in the translation as you opine.

I'm on a laptop and not at home right now, so I can't look to see who translated my Plato.

[acousticrock87]

I think that's essentially the case. The idea was the same, but the translators knew that a capitalized "God" would indicate Yahwe, which it was not.

[pbradley]

 

Suspect Plato, eh? You just don't get it, noob.

[m1rr0r dash]

Originally Posted by pbradley

That could be more from the medieval translators than your copy. I don't see a translator credit across it.

its inside... 14 translators for the various dialogues... the one in question is named Hugh Tredennick.

[m1rr0r dash]

Originally Posted by pbradley

 

Suspect Plato, eh? You just don't get it, noob.

who is this funny little man named alte190? when i google "alte," i am informed that my child appears to be dead.