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#61 | |
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i don't agree that its facist. i'm just asking the question - wouldn't the real facism be to refuse to ask that question and thus force people to keep reproducing in a particular way because you are afraid of technology disrupting the "natural" order. i'm talking about when it will become a choice to keep creating people the way they are now instead of altering them somehow. i mean after all when you decide to have a baby with a particular partner aren't you making a choice about what that baby is going to be like and what genes its going to have? what about when you have a situation were the knowledge of your genome and your partners genome is there, and also the genome of the child you will have and so what characteristics that child will have over its life. surely then the facism is to say "i don't want to know about any of this, i want to keep things natural". if there is technology to avoid say certain diseases from appearing in a child, then it makes sense to stop certain genes from circulation. of course this opens up a whole new space of power dynamics. but to repeat myself, i think the real facism is refusing to allow people access to these potentialities, because by doing so you are condemning them to reproduce, behave and exist in a particular way. and i take your point about matriarchies, but surely the barbarity and abuse aren't exactly the same as in patriarchy, i dont see how patriarchy is any better. couldn't we just change for variation at least! seriously tho, i don't know enough about this to argue sufficiently. the whole debate about our ancestral links to matriarchal bonobos and patriarchal chimpanzees is interesting tho. |
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#62 |
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I didn't say refuse, I meant enforce.
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#63 | ||
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nik, exhibiting authoritarian tendencies? nooooooooooo!!!!! how can that be??? Quote:
i would write him poems in the style of the shining path's paeans to Presidente Gonzalo, but if he writes me back he could later claim i stole it & he'd actually get out of his room to come shoot me, and i fear bullets. but since you ask: Pensamiento Gonzalo, Garantía de Triunfo Hasta el Comunismo. Por los 16 años de la Guerra Popular Victoriosa. Te encerraron entre cuatro rejas te aislaron del mundo entero creen que con eso van a apagar las llamas de la revolución ¡Pero tu pensamiento es luz poderosa! que esta en la mente de tu pueblo y los pueblos del mundo. Aullan los lobos y chacales desde el estiercol, ante su impotencia de frenar la Guerra Popular te atacan, te insultan refunfuñan, maquinan negros y siniestros planes como que son bestias heridas de muerte ¡Pero jamás podrán mellar tu pensamiento! Tiran barro al acero tratan de quitarte tu pensamiento quieren acallar tu voz quieren asesinarte ¡Pero no podrán acallar la encendida espada de tu alma! Podran desaparecerte despedazarte en mil pedazos romper tus huesos hasta podran matarte ¡Pero jamás podrán quebrarte! tu pensamiento está en cada obrero, en cada campesino, esta en cada dirigente que forjaste. Pensamiento Gonzalo es la Guerra Popular hasta el comunismo es la conquista del poder en todo el país es la Revolución Proletaria Mundial no es paz, no es rendición no es traición, es la violencia revolucionaria encarnada. Querido Jefe buén tiempo no estás con nosotros pero nos armaste para afrontar cualquier dificultad tu obra la proseguimos la Guerra Popular no se ha detenido y no se detendrá hasta el comunismo. ¡Mantendremos en alto la gran bandera roja es tu decisión, tu voluntad inquebrantable es poder para la clase y el pueblo! ¡SALVO EL PODER TODO ES ILUSIÓN! Camaradas, no dudeis de nuestro jefe de su pensamiento, de su ideología si aplicamos los principios justos y correctos jamás nos van a derrotar la Guerra Popular es invencible gana la guerra quién tiene ideología superior y nosotros la tenemos. La reacción nos quiere despojar de nuestro Pensamiento Gonzalo nos quiere quitar el alma ¡Eso jamás! Todo podrán quitarnos menos la ideología. Venceremos porque tenemos ideología que es arma más poderosa, invencible sobre la tierra el Marxismo-Leninismo-Maoismo, Pensamiento Gonzalo un partido comunista en armas una Guerra Popular victoriosa. Nuevo poder que se desarrolla ¡no nos van a derrotar! ¡Nada ni nadie puede detenernos! ¡El Pensamiento Gonzalo es garantía de victoria hasta el comunismo! El Pensamiento Gonzalo está con nosotros en cada uno de nosotros se agita y palpita la Guerra Popular sigue en marcha con el Pensamiento Gonzalo, somos sus continuadores no dejaremos las armas hasta el comunismo. Somos forja del Presidente Gonzalo invicto comunista, ¡acero puro! Camaradas, la palabra rendición no existe para nosotros nos hemos levantado en armas para conquistar el poder en todo el país hasta el comunismo con Guerra Popular y no nos detendremos ante nadie mientras quede un comunista todo se volverá a levantar es nuestra convicción inquebrantable estamos plenamente convencidos de que algún día ¡Las banderas rojas del comunismo flameara en todo el país y en el mundo! ¡Viva el Presidente Gonzalo y su Poderoso Pensamiento! ¡Viva la Guerra Popular Victoriosa! ------ replace "gonzalo" with "ni'k", and it's a readymade |
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#64 |
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what is huesos
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#65 | |
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ok, i'm not talking about some forced eugenics programme, hatched by a despotic techno facist regime, altho it would be fun to fake official looking documents relating to one and send them anonymously to infowars.com. my point is just that if you don't explore these technologies or block access to them you are forcing people to live by a certain set of conditions, which is also a form of facism. |
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#66 |
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Right. It's like what they are doing now with the smokes. They don't want me to smoke because it can cost them money and it costs them money while I'm working and take breaks and I might get sick and need time off work before I'm too old. So they'll go around saying that I shouldn't smoke and then slowly creating laws that treat me like a criminal. Of course, that's a shit example.
But if such technologies become available at some point, don't you think most goverment would try to enforce them in some way? Healthy workers, less medical bills, we'll watch you reproduction even closer than WE ALREADY DO TODAY.
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#67 | |
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bones the 1st poem is actually a thinly veiled and poor plagiarism of a really good poem called "canto coral a tupac amaru" |
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#68 |
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I thought it had something to do with huevos. But now it makes sense.
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#69 | |
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those tend to get tortured a lot too. do a search on "picana". owwww! |
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#70 |
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![]() i see no huevos.
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#71 | |
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that's a woman, there in the picture. those bastards have no qualms whatsoever. well, you could argue there are huevos inside her ovaries. i wonder if they are being fried. horrible. |
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#72 | |
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to think about all that as emanating from some "them" that acts in unison is the mistake. some people make money off your brains addiction to nicotine and your bodies drive to swap them coins for the product which delivers it. some of them make money being hired to promote campaigns to get you to smoke less so you are a more healthy/productive worker and save money for others. i think what we are seeing there, and also with junk food and dieting, is capitalism trying to make us both binge and purge constantly, so that it can make more money of us. i can see how a goverment would (will) try to harness these technologies for its own ends. but at the same time only under a totalitarian system could it hope to enforce its rules on everyone, and even then they would only be able to make it difficult for people, not impossible - like in china now with its policy of 1 child per family. and also, aren't we effectively already genetically engineering ourselves already, considering the fact that our allocation and witholding of resources among particular people creates situations were particular people breed in particular scenarios and in a particular numbers. for example, it can be argued that due to say, all the adults in germany's refusal to stop breeding en mass and allocate all their resources to a particular african village, they are directly determining factors in the reproduction in that village. during the irish famine, a particular english minister refused to send a massive surplus of food to ireland. that decision affected the lives and reproduction of a massive amount of people. look at the catholic church and its views on abortion, women and birth control, didn't it effectively function as a system of reproducitive regulation? so doesn't our current ignorance of the scientific knowledge to harness our reproduction and genetic code to the full exist only as a temporary obstacle? i don't think it will be a case of governments monitoring and controlling reproduction even more than they do already, it will be instead a collective expansion of the knowledge of how our actions already dictate how, when and were we reproduce and what exactly it is we are reproducing. there may indeed be abuse of this technology, in fact its almost garaunteed, but isn't it just ludditte to ignore it? it will be a matter of the knowledge we have of the things we do now that effect our reproduction in ways we cannot yet see, and with that the ability to alter our behaviours and how they effect our reproduction. the revolution will be in the changing conception of agency we attach to ourselves. right now we have a long overdue for a overthrow system of "democratic" politicians and governments standing in for god. right now, we leave a lot of these areas up in the air because we haven't had to ability to concioussly do much about them so far. its our democratic conception of self and how that relates to our expectations of what a government is and what its capable or entitled to do that is the only thing we can say with certainty won't last. if the system we have in the future is anything like the one we have now i'm sure it will have its regulations and conflicts. but who is to say what government will have control over it? i dont see it as being about if these particular technologies become available, but more a matter of when the obstacles in their way evaporate, be they lack of innovation, research or just time. back in the stone ages, people bred in a particular way, they had no choice for it to happen any other way. we are the same now, and we will be the same even in the future when we have all these now hypothetical technologies. just look at it the other way round, it was the material conditions of the stone age that produced a particular set of humans, the material conditions of this century that produced us, and the conditions of the future that produced those humans. there's nothing facist about this, the only facism is insisiting on clinging to an antiquated idea of what is natural and normal, or organo-facism as i've seen it called. |
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#73 |
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Nobody knows what is natural and/or normal.
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