[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SYRFox

no no you didn't get the point of my post, the problem is that they paid 4330000€ for a TV publicity that's being broadcast 1600 times on television, repeating slogans saying "you're impatient to win more while working more", just like if we were dogs raging; that's propaganda

oh you mean you're just annoyed for the money spent on the repetition? yeah that flew way above my head.

well maybe some misguided bullshit, i don't know. i'm more interested in the big picture though-- sorry for the hijack ha ha ha.

[MellySingsDoom]

One way to quieten the fury of the French working-man: get Carla Sarkozy to strip and masturbate herself blind on national TV.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

One way to quieten the fury of the French working-man: get Carla Sarkozy to strip and masturbate herself blind on national TV.

how about a lottery whereby farmers and factory workers and office drones get to fuck her blind? on tv, of course!

[Bertrand]

Thanks for the Forbes article.

And the suggestion above. The first one. The second lacks charm. Poor sweet heart. Everybody would want to hug her and pet her and kiss her and hug her and pet her and kiss her. But not on TV.

Sarkozy says he wants people to work more. I'd like more people to work.
But I don't know how.

The solution Sarkozy offered when he came was "work more, earn more". He meant overtime hours (that always existed).Extra hours apply to those who already have a job. Those who don't aren't considered. They're out. Out too are part time jobs held by people who'd like to work more on a regular basis.
Sarkozy, as a candidate, his ministers now, acted as if obtaining overtime hours was a worker's initiative, when it ain't. A worker going to his boss saying he/she worked 45 minutes overtime, can I get paid for that will hear "no; obviously, you haven't been able to work properly in due time; so no". This was the policy in one of the companies I worked for.

So Sarkozy increased the amount of extra hours (I don't have the figure, but think it's around 200 extra hours per employee).
These hours are paid on a different salary basis. Your hourly salary + 25% of it. There's a law stating that.

And what's just came on now is - and that's why I mentioned unions being weak - less than a year after Sarkozy's decision, companies will be able to negociate with the syndicate members of their plants and offices the following things :
- How many hours will one work? On a regular basis. The law said 35 hours, but, if almost everyone in the company (almost means bosses and any union representing 30% of the employees under pressure) agrees, employees could work more, or less. Less is already existing. More, not. Up to 48 hours. Or 68. Depending on sources.
- How much more will extra hours be paid? The law said 25%. The recent governmental action has now given all latitude to negociate it. It could be more (what a laugh), or less. But no less than 10%. From 25% to 10%, in almost a year. Work more to earn more.

So yes, to make France stronger things are done to help companies, yes. But companies are not the French, and the worker's share of the profits is being gnawed off.

The commercial that SYRFox mentioned is designed to quiet people on that topic, asking them to be less impatient (when their president ain't).
€ 4.33 millions for that purpose.
That's why SYRFox puked.

And I think he shouldn't have. I sent a letter to the Elysée to inform the president of this deviant character's attitude. The letter should work. Denoucing to authorities is back in style. http://www.rue89.com/2008/07/05/lele...-est-convoquee

All we can do for now is finding examples of how Sarkozy's lied, cheated, withdrew and so on, to prevent his voters from electing him again in 2012.

[mangajunky]

I'm salaried - I work extra hours all the time. I never get overtime. I'm responsible to get things done and I do.

[davenotdead]

 

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

 

WAR IS PEACE.

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

[greedrex]

Originally Posted by davenotdead

 

what was that for?
PS: have you noticed the black dude in g-stringon the left? haha

[HECKLER SPRAY]

Mr Symbol,
I'm not here to talk about politic, but in France, one of their first principle was to improve people's life. You know, vacations, social insurance, Minimal salary for living... Development was supposed to improve people's life. it used to work, but new capitalism killed this dream.
You can say it's "dirigisme", we call it "redistribution". Now most the money goes to speculators, rich people, not to people who work.
The cult of money has swept aside social and cutural progress.
Progress was supposed to improve people's life, at the beginning, no ?
It's just a point of view.

[davenotdead]

Originally Posted by greedrex

what was that for?
PS: have you noticed the black dude in g-stringon the left? haha

thats exactly what it was for

[Cantankerous]

i saw that on television the other day

pretty fucking outrageous. socialist pigs. i'm sorry, i love the french, but your government is retarded.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by HECKLER SPRAY

Mr Symbol,
I'm not here to talk about politic, but in France, one of their first principle was to improve people's life. You know, vacations, social insurance, Minimal salary for living... Development was supposed to improve people's life. it used to work, but new capitalism killed this dream.
You can say it's "dirigisme", we call it "redistribution". Now most the money goes to speculators, rich people, not to people who work.
The cult of money has swept aside social and cutural progress.
Progress was supposed to improve people's life, at the beginning, no ?
It's just a point of view.

yeah i agree but

if your french factory has to compete with a vietnamese factory full of hungry workers who don't mind working 60 hours a week because they really need the money, guess who's gonna win in the end?

im an immigrant from a 3rd world country so i know what i speak of.

 

anyway, ha ha, i am HUNGRY and i mean for dinner! sorry i can't reply more right now.

[!@#$%!]

so here's a followup ive been thinking about:

to want more & more vacation while the country is going to shit seems to me like decadence-- i understand enjoying while you can but when things get difficult you have to adapt or your competitor will have your inner organs for lunch.


unemployment in france has been at 8% since forever.

however, one must admit, the poverty rate is much lower than in more so-called "vibrant" countries like germany or the uk or the u.s and the gap between the rich and the poor is lesser too.

so i guess-- it depends on what you want out of your economy. i'm not opposed to a higher standard of living as long as it doesnt destroy you-- look at what the "higher standard of living" gave the US: gas-guzzling SUVs and higher carbon emissions.

but anyway, the problem is that with the global economy other countries are going to be able to produce things cheaper and faster and adapt more creatively, so you can't hope that you'll be on the top of the world forever. seems to me that with the excellent education in france the jobs should come from technology, research, aerospace, etc-- and in part they do, but unless people with talent are given the chance to start businesses in their own country there's going to be a brain drain.

the only alternative way that i can see is if france was able to export its social protections to other countries... so that everyone is competing on a level (and more benevolent) playing field. however, without power and influence, that doesn't happen.

not sure how this works internally within the european union, as im quite ignorant of european union policies and politics, but it seems that while some countries have been growing quite fast (ireland, spain), and some seem to always have (germany) france hasn't in quite a while.

[HECKLER SPRAY]

Yeah, Agreed.
I know it's impossible, but I'd like my economy to give all the people a decent life, a higher standard than now, and I'd like other countries to have pretty much the same standard. And no dictatorship. Etc... But I know we're living in a wonderful capitalist world ( you can call it "global economy", it's just a more acceptable word for capitalism).
And our business model is probably dead, but don't worry, our government takes measures to fix the problem, our system is going to be more and more like the anglo-saxon system. Like European Union wants France to be. I'm very happy. No more social protection. That's so modern !!!





I hate to talk about politic, it's too frustrating.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by HECKLER SPRAY

Yeah, Agreed.
I know it's impossible, but I'd like my economy to give all the people a decent life, a higher standard than now, and I'd like other countries to have pretty much the same standard. And no dictatorship. Etc... But I know we're living in a wonderful capitalist world ( you can call it "global economy", it's just a more acceptable word for capitalism).
And our business model is probably dead, but don't worry, our government takes measures to fix the problem, our system is going to be more and more like the anglo-saxon system. Like European Union wants France to be. I'm very happy. No more social protection. That's so modern !!!





I hate to talk about politic, it's too frustrating.

well, think of this-- marx said that for communism to arrive, capitalism had to triumph first.

one of the reasons the previous incarnations of marxism failed (among many others) is that these were ideological impositions on rural societies (russia, china, cuba) rather than the natural evolution of capitalism... assuming marx wasn't wrong, which of course he was, and in many ways, but that's another story.

but still, we can preserve this kernel of truth-- once capitalism has spread around the globe, there is no possible "undeveloped country" where the factories can be moved. and you have the possibility of transnational unions---just like transnational corporations.

for example, my dad used to work for volvo, and the swedish company had a strong union, so the local union was strong too, as it was supported by the swedish one. later volvo was bought up by an american company and all was fucked i suppose-- haven't followed lately.

but anyway-- right now, if you are a worker who bitches too much, the owners say "well fuckit, we're moving to china (or singapore or bangladesh)"

but once the chinese or singa-something, or bangladeshis, are making good salaries, have a decent standard of living, etc. etc., they will want social protections too. they will want clean air and clean water and long vacations.

so there is hope-- however, in the short run, you have to adapt or get assraped by the system-- it's kind of a survival thing.

i'm not for working your ass off with no possibility of enjoyment-- but i'm 100% for survival and keeping an eye on the road ahead before i get smashed-- oh yeah. and for this, you gotta do what you gotta do. just saying.

[HECKLER SPRAY]

I hope, I hope...
But it's difficult for middle class people to accept to lower their standard of living while rich people are getting richer and richer. And I don't talk about moneyless people...

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by HECKLER SPRAY

I hope, I hope...
But it's difficult for middle class people to accept to lower their standard of living while rich people are getting richer and richer. And I don't talk about moneyless people...

yeah, no question about that, it goes from merely uncomfortable to outright traumatic--

but if you can convice china to pay better wages (it will happen on its own, trust me), thing will work out for the better.

HOWEVER, i don't think that the fact that someone gave you a job X years ago means now that they owe you a job for life-- that makes absolutely no sense to me. nobody owes me any security. i'm not a child.

anyway, we'll see-- history is much much bigger than tiny individuals like us, ha ha ha---

[HECKLER SPRAY]

For sure !!!