[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

Yup! Beyonce is a very talented lady, but her father who was also her manager was too controlling. Departing from him after the subpar Sasha Fierce was the best decision she's ever made, ever since then she's been on a roll. She really keeps getting better on every album.

Hey man, I like Sasha Fierce. "Single Ladies?" "Ego?" "Halo?" That buzz saw synth in "Single Ladies" was what turned me on to her solo shit in the first place. It was a good album.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I find bey interesting because she is a cultural icon and there are no competition BUT she doesn't seem to have the force and dominant influence that previous divas had. She is better than Modonna but i don't think she has reached a bigger peak than Madonna in her prime was!

I think Rihanna is actually more commercially successful at this point. Not sure on that, but I'd say Rihanna is definitely "competition" for Beyoncé.

Rih is Spotify's #1 most listened to artist in the world. Granted, Bieber is #2, Weeknd and Drake are in the top ten, and the only one who seems to actually belong there (Kanye) is at #8.

Beyoncé is, like, #89 or something.

Also I think Taylor Swift is obviously up there in terms of popularity. Is she competition for Beyoncé? Eh. Not really. But she's much, much more popular. Which is unfortunate.

[Severian]

I still think that "Single Ladies" video is just plan hypnotic. I've never been a hornball for celebrities, but that video does something fucked up to my brain. I want to eat it.

[louder]

Originally Posted by Severian

Hey man, I like Sasha Fierce. "Single Ladies?" "Ego?" "Halo?" That buzz saw synth in "Single Ladies" was what turned me on to her solo shit in the first place. It was a good album.

I love Single Ladies of course. That album had some great singles but not much more than that. Her worst album for me.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I'm not just talking about sales or chart position. Rihanna or Taylor Swift push units BUT they aren't at that same level of cultural icon as Beyonce and yet honestly of Beyonce died in twenty years it wouldn't be like if Madonna died next week. The world wouldn't go pUrple like they did for Prince

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I'm not just talking about sales or chart position. Rihanna or Taylor Swift push units BUT they aren't at that same level of cultural icon as Beyonce and yet honestly of Beyonce died in twenty years it wouldn't be like if Madonna died next week. The world wouldn't go pUrple like they did for Prince

I'm not sure we can say what will or won't happen in 20 years.

Actually, I am sure ... that we cannot.

And I think if Beyoncé died today (knock on wood oh please god no no no), you'd be absolutely goddamn astounded by the public reaction.

But again, can't really say what will or won't happen in the future.

[louder]

Drake "Views from the 6" album cover is terrible:

 

[Severian]

Oh, I don't know. I think it's ok. It's much better than the covers of Take Care, Thank me Later or Nothing Was the Same. From a photographic perspective it's actually kind of stunning. But yeah, once youd notice that there's an itty-bitty, lonely ass looking Drake chilling in his mink coat, it kinda kills it.

What the fuck's he doing anyway? Playing Where's Waldo with himself?

God I want to punch his face! The beard is not helping. He remains the most punchable man on earth for me.

[Severian]

Drake's taking some shit for his recent use of afrobeat sounds. I wonder why people think that any of the musical decisions are his idea. I doubt he has anything to do with it. But he's kinda taking it in the ass like Paul Simon did with Graceland and Rhythm of the Saints.

[Rob Instigator]

why would anyone fault someone with african heritage using afrobeat sounds?

[louder]

Originally Posted by Severian

Oh, I don't know. I think it's ok. It's much better than the covers of Take Care, Thank me Later or Nothing Was the Same. From a photographic perspective it's actually kind of stunning. But yeah, once youd notice that there's an itty-bitty, lonely ass looking Drake chilling in his mink coat, it kinda kills it.

What the fuck's he doing anyway? Playing Where's Waldo with himself?

God I want to punch his face! The beard is not helping. He remains the most punchable man on earth for me.

LOL, I was waiting for your response! Can always count on you to make me laugh when it comes to Drake.

[louder]

Rolling Stones gave Lemonade 5 stars (RARE):

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/al...onade-20160425

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

Rolling Stones gave Lemonade 5 stars (RARE):

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/al...onade-20160425

Wow. Yes that is very rare for a new release (more common for reissues of classic albums, but even then it's pretty goddamn rare, and reserved for the Kind of Blues and White Albums of the world).

For a little context, Kanye West is the most critically revered musician of the 2010's, but he's only scored TWO 5-star ratings (Late Registration, MBDTF). His other classics all hover around the 4.5 star mark (Yeezus, Graduation, Life of Pablo) with 808's -- oddly -- only getting 3.5.

And Kendrick Lamar has never had a 5-star album. Good Kid got 4, TPAB got 4.5.

Beyoncé's never had over 3.5 as far as I know. Everything from Sasha Fierce on has been 3-3.5. 3.5 is considered pretty goddamn good. 4 and 4.5 are instant classics, and 5's are reserved for what RS thinks are perfect records.

I haven't listened to Lemonade yet, but I'm going to with extra interest now.

[noisereductions]

808s wasn't really understood upon release. Even by most fans I think. I know it baffled me at first. It wasn't until several years later that I truly "got" how great it was.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

why would anyone fault someone with african heritage using afrobeat sounds?

I'm not really sure. He also got some heat for the "riddim" used on Hotline Bling -- that I'm sure he had next to no involvement in -- but defended it by saying that riddims were shared in the reggae community, and considered basically public domain.

Question is, is he a part of that community? Regarding the reggae community, I'd wholeheartedly say no. Regarding afrobeat, I'm not sure. Drake is (really hoping this isn't offensive, but it's the only way I can describe it without using that "m" word that I'm totally uncomfortable with) ... ½ black. Does that change things? I don't know.

He's also Jewish, both ethnically and culturally. And he's from fucking Toronto, which like most cities has a fair amount of cultural diversity, and a well represented Jamaican population, but also -- like many cities -- kind of relegates its cultural minorities to certain areas, hindering true ethnic unity.

And Drake has never known struggle. He was rich as a teenager, while most of us were bussing tables or cleaning bathrooms to pay our way through college (I never was a water or a janitor, but I held many shit ass 3rd shift warehouse summer jobs.

I'm not sure it's in the best interest of African and/or Jamaican communities to loot from their culture and pretend that he's a part of it, when he's never known poverty or 3rd world conditions. At least, I'm guessing that's where the problem is for anyone who's insulted by his use (appropriation?) of these cultural styles and traditions.

But I don't personally see it that way. I mean, what the hell does it say about global culture if those in positions of comfort or privilege, especially artists, can't shine a light on other parts of the world, and gain inspiration from those places and their people? Paul Simon took a trip to Africa before Graceland, and maybe he was inspired by what he saw there. I mean, what does that say about other art forms if such crossover is off the table? What does it say about embed journalism, for instance?

Now, personally I kind of fucking hate it when some rich white kid from a rich white Dutch family (speaking of a specific person here; not generalizing) uses his trust fund to take a break from life and go to the Sudan to snap photos of starving children. Then trots back to the US and does a gallery tour in the name of "raising awareness" when really all he's doing is using his own unearned financial means and social status to turn other people's suffering into a career. I HATE that shit.

But that's not really embed journalism. That's well-deserved white guilt, manifesting at an opportune time and being contorted into heroics. That asshole (who I know, and who really is a douche) should be ashamed of himself. He's not even a journalist. He's a college dropout who had enough money and influence to do whatever the fuck he wanted, and his pictures now turn up in major publications and galleries across the US. But what about the true embed journalists? The newspaper reporters or documentary filmmakers who ride in trucks with ISIS members? Who step into enemy territory during wartime to bring us the truth at the risk of their own health and safety?

If I had to guess I'd say Drake is a little closer to that asshole rich kid I was talking about than to any kind of social justice crusader or truth seeker.

But I can't say for sure.

It definitely is an interesting discussion, since this kind of "appropriation" has been a part of the western art, literature, music, film, poetry etc. since the founding of this country. When is it for the best and when is it for the worst? I can't say.

But .. yeah.. whatever we were taking about, for sure.

[louder]

I don't feel like I'm in the position to comment on whether Drake is "qualified" to use Carribean music elements on his songs or not. All I can say, as a listener, is that his attempts at these sound unnatural. His voice and delivery on Rihanna's "Work", for example, sound out of place for me and make me cringe. I'd much rather have someone like Sean Paul who is actually Jamaican and has the right patois to pull it off featured on the song instead.

Also, if he's really going for a summer vibe on this album with catchy, easy-going, Afrobeat influenced party songs then that cover art doesn't fit at all.

It reminds me of Bieber's album from last year, where the singles sounded very "bright" and had a summery "tropical house" sound (a subgenre that contains elements of dancehall), but then the cover art ended up looking dark and Bieber was posing as a white kid who's going through a phase where he wishes he was 2Pac. I was like WHAT?

To sum it up, those pop artists really need to learn how to choose their covers better.

[noisereductions]

my wife has been playing that Bieber album a lot. I actually like it.

[louder]

Never listened to the album. That cover art just threw me off. The few singles I've heard were fun though and I had them on rotation for a minute.

Dancehall and afrobeat influence is "hot" in the mainstream right now. Beyonce had it on her album too. And in her case, just like Bieber's and many others, it's actually a white dude behind the boards (Diplo).

[louder]

Drake has afrobeat/dancehall artists featured on "One Dance" and "Controlla", I guess he tries to make up for capitalizing on the movement by giving its authentic artists more exposure. Pretty clever.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

To be fair to drake no one in JA was dissing Sean Paul accept for me and i dare say Drake is more of an artist and so deserves benefit of doubt for creative license. I'm obviously not a fan of exploiting ragga culture but at same time while drake is purely commercial i won't throw him under the Shaggy bus just yet