[kinn]

as opposed to "pro american"? i won't modify my discourse to be either "pro" or "anti" american. because that is an idiotic binary. "your either with us or against us". do you think i give a shit about sounding "anti american"? lol. i could not give 2 fifths of a fuck.

were are these assumptions and basic cliche stuff anyway?

the reason these people want to kill you is because of actions your country has been carrying out in their country for decades and decades. it wasn't a necessity that things turned out this way. they don't just "hate" you for no reason whatsoever. or because they just "do".

as for the wikileaks being weak and unimportant. that's at best crap. "it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know". no. it did. and what, 2% of the cables have come out so far? is what you mean to say "i don't care and don't want to know, let me get on with my life not having to worry"?

battle plans were not leaked. the US media lied and claimed that info that was leaked would be useful to terrorists and put lives in danger. it DID NOT. and wikileaks repeatedly asked them before they leaked it to go through it and see if there was anything that could be potentially risky, and they offered to not release it. but the US point blank refused to do so.

don't pretend like i said i could read your thoughts. only infer your intentions. and it doesn't sound like you want to discuss this. i don't know or care if you do or whatever. it sounds to me like you're just saying "oh that's the way it always has been and always will be so shut up unless you can start a revolution and solve all the problems RIGHT NOW". sounds to me like another way of saying "don't think and don't disturb the rest of us who don't want to think".

the US didn't used to be in a state of permanent war. this has not always been the case. do you not get that it will destroy itself this way?

funny you bring up athens vs. spartans considering how the greek empire ended up. defeated through being overstretched. the same thing will happen to the US. that is a certainty because of the way it is behaving. that is something that the neo con establishment and obama and well, everyone in charge is bringing upon you.

what you are saying are things like "oh there has always been war and conflict" but using this as a reason not to question the actual situation as it is now makes no sense. of course there have been wars and conflict throughout history. but that is like saying "don't bother with an umbrella today since for the rest of history it will always rain.

if you really want to discuss this then discuss it. don't complain about me being an "utter cunt" when i wasn't, and when you too were saying trollish things earlier on. go ahead and discuss if that's what you want to do. i'm not going to troll you if that is what you are actually doing, i did when what you were saying sounded like "shut up and don't talk about it". i honestly don't want to discuss anymore of it, because i cannot be bothered and it is tedious. i'm not going to somehow stop you with cuntishness tho.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Im sorry if it sounded like I meant shut up and dont talk about it. That couldnt be further from the truth.

And no I certainly wouldnt suggest you be PRO American or ANTI American, both are extremes and extremes are useless and dangerous.

I don't think America will end by overstretching itself, it'll probably be civil war.

We're pretty much fucked

[knox]

Then what's the "it's not my fault where I was born" thing? When nobody suggested anything about it.
Clearly, it's not anybody's "fault" where they were born, so why should some of us die simply because we were born somewhere "supposedly" to "protect" others?
there were no battle plans leaked, tho war crimes were exposed.
First you say talking about it is pointless, then you say you support the debate.

[kinn]

np.

it exhausts me to think about this stuff anymore.

i know i was just talking about someone else not wanting to talk about it, but i really can't be bothered if anyone wants to drag out a whole thing about what i said.

[knox]

Funny part:

"We only know these crimes took place because insiders blew the whistle at great personal risk ... Government whistleblowers are part of a healthy democracy and must be protected from reprisal," noted Barack Obama while on the campaign trail in 2008. While the President was referring to the Bush Administration's use of phone companies to illegally spy on Americans, Pfc. Manning's alleged actions are just as noteworthy. If the military charges against him are accurate, they show that he had a reasonable belief that war crimes were being covered up, and that he took action based on a crisis of conscience.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by DeadDiscoDildo

And no I certainly wouldnt suggest you be PRO American or ANTI American, both are extremes and extremes are useless and dangerous.

Without wanting to fan the flames, the point is about American state governance and foreign policy. In that context, I'm definitely anti-American. That doesn't mean I'm anti people who happen to be Americans (in spite of how insufferable so many of you are, and your pitiful neglect of your only decent cultural product, country music).

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Originally Posted by knox

Then what's the "it's not my fault where I was born" thing? When nobody suggested anything about it.
Clearly, it's not anybody's "fault" where they were born, so why should some of us die simply because we were born somewhere "supposedly" to "protect" others?
there were no battle plans leaked, tho war crimes were exposed.
First you say talking about it is pointless, then you say you support the debate.

I never said talking about it was pointless.

And I thought battle plans were leaked, I havent had time to read all them myself yet. Thats what I heard from someone. Thanks for informing me they were wrong.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Originally Posted by Glice

Without wanting to fan the flames, the point is about American state governance and foreign policy. In that context, I'm definitely anti-American. That doesn't mean I'm anti people who happen to be Americans (in spite of how insufferable so many of you are, and your pitiful neglect of your only decent cultural product, country music).

In that sense, then I am pretty anti american myself.

I just took something nik said a few pages back the wrong way maybe.

There are definitley people that judge citizens for the acts of their government so I was defensive.


I stopped following politics because it started to give me such a fucking headache. Disagreed with most everything that was going on, surrounded by republican neo cons and idiots in the midwest.

[knox]

There's this paranoia tho, isn't there? Everything you say is "you're anti-american, it's not my fault, i'm only a citizen".

[DeadDiscoDildo]

If you lived in my country you'd be fucking paranoid too.

I don't get what you're trying to say.

I definitley think people should talk about it, be aware of whats' going on etc.

But I'm not naive enough to believe petitions and hippies will never end any war. We left vietnam cuz we couldnt beat the vietkong, not becuase ppl with signs said "PEACE NOT WAR" "DROP ACID NOT BOMBS".

Are you fucking kidding me? Our government and military failed and got the fuck out. and now is doing it all over again.

I'm not saying I don't wish it was different. That's just how it is.

Living in this country has made me pretty nihilistic.

[knox]

Originally Posted by DeadDiscoDildo

If you lived in my country you'd be fucking paranoid too.

I don't get what you're trying to say.

I definitley think people should talk about it, be aware of whats' going on etc.

But I'm not naive enough to believe petitions and hippies will never end any war. We left vietnam cuz we couldnt beat the vietkong, not becuase ppl with signs said "PEACE NOT WAR" "DROP ACID NOT BOMBS".

Are you fucking kidding me? Our government and military failed and got the fuck out. and now is doing it all over again.

I'm not saying I don't wish it was different. That's just how it is.

Living in this country has made me pretty nihilistic.

if i lived in your country i'd be paranoid? would i be worried about terrorists out to get me?
btw, it wasn't an "end the war" petition.

[SpaceCadetHayden]

Originally Posted by DeadDiscoDildo

Living in this country has made me pretty nihilistic.

nihilism: an extreme form of skepticism: the denial of all real existence or the possibility of an objective basis for truth.

...

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by DeadDiscoDildo

I knew most of that but not all of that, so thanks for the information.

It is possible to speak to eachother here without being complete, utter cunts, eh? Imagine that.

The religious right and manifest destiny are partially to blame as well..

Also, the world has been pretty fucked since the world wars anyway. There has never been peace since, just continued war with spys, businesses, and bribery. Greed has taken over.

indeed

the real issue is always drugs and guns, in history its always been over drugs and guns, be it peppers or sugar or heroin or coca, be it flint axes or steel swords or canon or assault weapons, same shit different toilet.

the religious right are, but not necessarily religion (as religious charities continue to be one of the largest sources of good remaining in this terrifying world)..

The World Wars have never really ended, just in mainland Europe, and the Balkans region would argue that it never ended there at all

War is hell, and unfortunately Hell is an easier place to get than heaven, because hell is the result of rash, self-seeking impulsiveness which is so easy its second nature for humans, where as heaven on earth entails self-control, empathy and mutual cooperation, all things that are practically impossible for human beings to continue in..

Notice I said practically

[!@#$%!]

you guys read/heard about pfizer and their experiments on nigerian children, right? and how they wanted to get out of paying their fines?
i'm posting alink to a british paper which will probably be more thorough than CNN. just in case you don't know the kind of stuff that's starting to surface.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...pfizer-nigeria

THANKS, WIKILEAKS!

and yet, the american populace mostly wants assange prosecuted, according to the latest polls.

also, 7 in 10 americans think it's ok to continue giving tax breaks to the rich

i'm thinking of relocating...

[knox]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

you guys read/heard about pfizer and their experiments on nigerian children, right? and how they wanted to get out of paying their fines?
i'm posting alink to a british paper which will probably be more thorough than CNN. just in case you don't know the kind of stuff that's starting to surface.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...pfizer-nigeria

THANKS, WIKILEAKS!

and yet, the american populace mostly wants assange prosecuted, according to the latest polls.

also, 7 in 10 americans think it's ok to continue giving tax breaks to the rich

i'm thinking of relocating...

american tv seems to be implying that nothing in these documents is of any importance.

[SpaceCadetHayden]

Originally Posted by knox

american tv seems to be implying that nothing in these documents is of any importance.

Persuading us to ignore them.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by DeadDiscoDildo

But I'm not naive enough to believe petitions and hippies will never end any war. We left vietnam cuz we couldnt beat the vietkong, not becuase ppl with signs said "PEACE NOT WAR" "DROP ACID NOT BOMBS"..

Daniel Ellsburg once told a great story about the Nixon Admin; Nixon is in his office with his staff discussing dropping nukes on North Vietnam and Nixon looked out the window and saw a million people protesting the war on the lawn in DC whatever its called and decided dropping nukes would be a bad idea.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

The World Wars have never really ended, just in mainland Europe, and the Balkans region would argue that it never ended there at all

my argument is that the nazi's didn't give up, they just gave up on Germany.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by tesla69

my argument is that the nazi's didn't give up, they just gave up on Germany.

"and thats a truuue story folks.." Phil Lesh September 1978

 

[tesla69]

here's just one piece of information from wikileaks that provides and example of why the Elites are freaked out about and trying to suppress this material demanding extrajudicial execution.

By ThosPayne
Auburn Journal | December 3, 2010

Wikileaks recently released a cable from the US Embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan, revealing that government mercenaries working for DynCorp (pronounced “dine-korp”) International threw a special party for Afghan security recruits that featured “Bacha bazi,” using trafficked boys as the entertainment. The boys’ pimps were paid to make the boys sing and dance for the police recruits and then be raped by them afterward. There’s our tax dollars at work, fighting terrorism and extremism in Afghanistan by buying little boys for pedo-sex with drugged-out cops.

“Bacha bazi” is the Afghan tradition of “boy play,” in which young boys are bought, dressed up in girls’ clothing, forced to dance for leering men and then provide sex to the highest bidder. Apparently, this “entertainment” is being funded by our tax dollars while DynCorp International is in charge of security and entertainment.

DynCorp is a government contract “security training force” which has been (mostly ineffectively) providing training for Afghan and Iraqi security and police forces and drug officers in Mexico and South America. The Kunduz dancing boy rape incident is nothing new for DynCorp.

In 1999 DynCorp was at the center of a child sex slavery and prostitution scandal in Bosnia. There, DynCorp employees were involved in raping, buying and selling women and girls from the Ukraine, Moldova and Roumania – some as young as 12 years old.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esvf-GOO8EM)

The Pentagon contracted with DynCorp to perform police duties for the UN and aircraft maintenance for the US Army in Bosnia. A disgusted DynCorp whistle blower exposed his company prostituting and trafficking Ukranian and Russian children, and even came forward with evidence – DynCorps’ Bosnia site supervisor had videotaped himself raping two girls. In the end, only the whistle-blower was punished. This was just one of two different scandals involving DynCorp and child slaves in Bosnia. The other involved air plane mechanic Ben Johnston, who sued DynCorp, alleging he was fired when he discovered that DynCorp employees and supervisors had been “engaging in perverse, illegal and inhumane behavior [and] were purchasing illegal weapons, women, forged passports and [participating in] other immoral acts.” The employees involved were transferred out of the country. None were ever charged with a crime.

In 2004, DynCorp employees at Tolemaida Air Base in Colombia were distributing videos of themselves raping underage girls from the nearby resort town of Melgar. Copies of the videos were even sold on the streets of Bogotá.

No DynCorp executive or employee was ever brought to justice in any of these cases. BGen Karl Horst said of DynCorp, “These guys run loose in this country and do stupid stuff. There’s no authority over them, so you can’t come down on them hard when they escalate force… they shoot people and someone else has to deal with the aftermath. It happens all over the place.”