[infinitemusic]

Originally Posted by davenotdead

to the bold: thats why its called "volunteer work"

also, a lot of the richest people of the world are also the biggest philanthropists. i could argue that bill gates does more to help 'the world' than 99.9% of the poor starving artist liberals do, just because they recycle and choose bikes over cars etc... they think that gives them the right to yell/scoff at rich people.

of course the world would be better if people weren't greedy. but taking away incentives for people who work hard to make money, well i just don't think that would help

Money is the incentive. No matter if taxes are higher or not, people want more money. That's what drives capitalism. You're basically falling under the assumption that capitalism doesn't work, or something.

[Satan]

 

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

if the INDIVIDUAL is not pleased with their current healthcare, the individual should do something about it.

Like voting for universal health care so that health care won't bankrupt said individual. Thanks for agreeing with me.

Originally Posted by swa(y)

just like, if the individual feels as if they dont make enough money, the individual should do something about it. just like if the individual finds their living arrangements disagreable, the individual should do something about it. and one of my fav. things about america...THE INDIVIDUAL CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

America, where jobs are always available and businesses never fail. You exaggeration of the strength of the individual makes me feel as though I'm giving the "life is hard" speach to a five year old.

but, we've became acustomed to sitting on our asses waiting for someone else to do something. fuck that. oh, you dont have healthcare? dont feel like forking out the money for it or having it takin' out of yr earned wages...SAVE YR FUCKING MONEY IN CASE YA NEED IT.

In this sentence, you make it crystal clear that you know nothing about health care cost for even minor conditions. Health care isn't a commodity. You won't have time to compare and price check when you are having a heart attack.

with that said...fuck the welfare, too. it should be limited to (FOR A LIMITED TIME!!!!) single mothers trying to raise three kids, as well as old people that physically cant work (and/or dont have anyone else to take care of them).

This is a whole other topic that I'll just ignore. It only enphasises your opinion that generosity is a vice.

worried about yr parents getting old and not being able to afford putting them into an old folks home?...TAKE CARE OF THEM YRSELF! its no ones job to offer services to help you with such matters, nor should it be.

It's hard reconciling the first and last sentence here. Abolish old folks homes? It is their job for which you pay them. But if you don't have the money for that, you can just quit your job and take care of them yourself! Oh, but you need your job in order to provide for them. Again, you are realistic at all.

if there WAS to be anything america should be embarassed about, its the fact that we didnt take more notes from the way the native americans lived their lives.

It is common amongst for the elderly of Native American tribes to be taken care of by the entire tribe.

i dont think its the governments job to take care of people. i dont. theres nothing pretty about laziness.

The Constitution of the United States disagrees.

[pbradley]

Health care debt is perhaps the biggest pitfall that prevents the poorest of the nation from being "individuals that can do something about it" and not "fat lazy assses."

[samuel]

I'm with swa(y).

[pbradley]

That's because you distrust poor people.

[Satan]

poor people are the backbone of america.

[samuel]

Originally Posted by pbradley

That's because you distrust poor people.

Nope.

[pbradley]

You said before that you oppose welfare because you believe that people abuse it. You distrust those people to use welfare to impove their situation.

[samuel]

I don't oppose welfare for people who need it, but I feel too much is dished out. I personally know quite a few people who abuse it. I understand it's a big help for many though.

If I were to distrust poor people, I would have to distrust myself. I'm putting myself through college while working 20+ hours a week on the side. All the taxes I pay are ridiculous. I need the money that I work for....

[Satan]

^my childhood

can't sit through this shit anymore.

i want my money back.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

life is hard, and businesses do fail. but, lets not forget HOW MANY JOBS ARE OUT THERE. if you can not find a job in america, you probally are not looking all that hard.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/09/news...jobs_december/

A nation of people should take care of a nation of people. I know I'm willing to pay the taxes so that another American won't fall into debt because they needed critical care.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

true.

and i personally love poor people. part of my youth was spent being VERY poor. a single mother supporting two kids making considerably less than what i do. i dont know how she did it....or do i? SHE DIDNT WASTE MONEY. we never did without anything, because my mom came home from working her ass off and saved any extra cent she had, so if we needed anything, it was there.

You're lucky that one of you didn't need emergency attention.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by girlgun

out of curiosity.... do you people from countries other than america know that we pay state taxes as well as federal taxes?

nope

in addition to paying federal and state taxes,

I don't know whether the income tax I pay is relevant to state or fed.. which is a bit shameful I guess. My first job is tax free up until $6k, then 15 cents in the dollar to 30k, 30 cents in the dollar to 80k, 38 cents in the dollar to 180k, and anyone who earns more than that pays 45 cents in the dollar. If I have two jobs, the second job doesn't have any tax free period. etc.

i also pay property tax which is city tax

people pay yearly property tax here, plus tax when you buy a house/move. Stamp duty varies by state, my state is usually $2500 plus 6% of the property price(it's a table but most houses fall within that rate), which is the most expensive state in australia (fucksake. )
Same when you buy a car.

if you own a business, your business is taxed, your income from the business is then taxed and all your employees are taxed. the business shouldn't be taxed. what would happen if the business wasn't taxed? there would be more to put back into the business, i.e. more employees or employees being paid more, better benefits

all that sounds the same as here.. You must be reg to pay 10% if yr biz brings in over 50k a year.

Plus when you buy stuff, it's taxed. If I buy a bottle of soda from the store, I pay 10% tax on it... My phone bill is taxed. My electricity and gasas in.. natural gas, not gasoline I dunno what you guys call that ?) supplies are taxed. Not to mention that if I buy something that is made in oz the place whicih made it would've paid 10% on all the resources it bought here used to make the fkn thing.
If I buy petrol(gas), I pay 30% tax PLUS 10% tax on that. This was a massive issue here but the govt loves it so it will not change ever.

(oh and thank god they shot down taxing our benefits too... jesus fucking christ srsly?)

what do you mean by benefits? as in.. if you don't earn an income so you get an unemployed allowance type payment? If it is, that is classed as an income too here and you pay tax on it also, (according to regular tax table I think)


I also pay an amount of tax for public healthcare.. which to be honest I don't completely understand(as in, I dont know whether I'd still have to pay that if I had a ridiculously low income), but on average I pay around $600 dollars a year tax for that. If I didn't have private health insurance (which I do) I would ALSO have to pay another $800 or so.

Tax sucks but to be honest I don't hate my public healthcare system. I might hate it if I were really really poor, because even non-elective surgury waiting lists in the public system are notoriously long here. It does allow me to go see a doctor for free if I really need to(but not all GP are required to offer this service), which I think every person living in a country should have fair access to.

[phoenix]

I haven't read this thread btw, I don't really have an interest in talking about a health sytem from another country I don't know anything about. I don't even think that much about my own because Im not terribly unhappy with it.

[phoenix]

LOL gg.. you DO get a cash back payment from the govt if you have a baby though.. $5k for each kid.

This is probably my only issue with anything relating to our current healthcare.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

oh, we did! mom was cool enough to find a job that, even if it didnt offer great money, offered great benefits.

again, weak response on yr end.

Insurance, which is essentially being covered by premiums paid by other people to the insurance company.

last i checked you didnt have a job and were just dicking around following yr brother and/or sitting around bored at yr parents house. fuck you, you lazy bastard. YOU are the problem. its easy for the lazy to feel as if they deserve what they do not have. the non-lazy EARN what the feel they need/want.

This is a gross personal attack and I'm surprised that you aren't above this. It only goes to show your ignorant assumption that unemployment is laziness. Such an easy way to avoid addressing the argumentation itself in a logical manner. I've probably done more volunteer work in my life without pay than you've ever worked for it. Your myopic selfishness now undermines your own self-interests in the long run.

[Satan]

Originally Posted by pbradley

It only goes to show your ignorant assumption that unemployment is laziness.

for real. we're in a recession, y'all.

by the way does anyone have any advice on getting a job because if i don't i won't be able to feed myself in 6 months

[phoenix]

I'm a bit of a commie at heart, so I have no problem with paying a fair amount so that my fellow country people may have access to medical care no matter what their financial circumstances, if they should need it.

Every working person is only a tragedy or two away from being homeless and having nothing. We are human.

[phoenix]

^^ I think pbradly was suggesting that just because he might not be working a paying job right now, his acts are no less deserving of compensation in terms of medical care.

I dont think you guys are going to get each other on this one.