[louder]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djuc0kg97yo

41 seconds in.

You need to learn your history.

did PE really never receive any radio play, at all?? but you got my point anyway, just replace them with Biggie or pretty much any other respectable rapper from the 80s-90s. the radio playing your songs doesn't make you "less hip-hop" than others..

[Genteel Death]

Can we please stop using the word canvas when describing some music?

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by louder

rap used to be mostly protest music back then, talking about how poor and broke you are. and now it's evolved to the point where it's mostly about representing triumph as a result of overcoming adversity and struggle. and that's beautiful if you ask me.

if you actually read the words that are being rapped these days by the rappers coming up, all they talk about is how much $$$ they made selling drugs, how they then used that drug $$ to buy themselves a record, and a video, and fly shit, and how they never ever stop earnin'.

It is bullshit. half of these fucks are talking out their asses daydreamin and pipe-dreamin and rapping about owning Bentleys and Mosbachs when they have to borrow money from some gangster to RENT one for the video shoot, which they can't even drive because that would cost more...

Many of the others? They really DID sling rock and heroin , or pimp women, and help ruin the lives of countless hundreds of people, possibly killing people, then they realized the "real game" was in hustling CD's and making beats.

I respect Drake for what he has done. I do not enjoy his rhyme schemes nor his MC voice. That's just me. But he has done it the "proper" way I guess.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by louder

did PE really never receive any radio play, at all?? but you got my point anyway, just replace them with Biggie or pretty much any other respectable rapper from the 80s-90s. the radio playing your songs doesn't make you "less hip-hop" than others..

PE rarely received any goddamn radio play at all, and barely any MTV play, even on Yo MTV Raps.

The shit was too agitating!

you gotta remember that hip hop/rap music got minimal airplay unless it was straight pop fluff like Hammer, or the endless repeats of Sugarhill Gang, and it took a while for middleamerica/whitefolks to not be scared. People were SCARED of RUN DMC. They looked like hoodlums, not "rock stars" and it freaked folks out. You should have been alive to see the UPROAR! that was caused by 2LiveCrew's rapping wack-ass nursery rhyme profanity! It went all the way to fucking Congress!

Either way, I cannot get Wetty Fap's TRAP QUEEN out my goddamn head! Screw you StreetFlava!

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

if you actually read the words that are being rapped these days by the rappers coming up, all they talk about is how much $$$ they made selling drugs, how they then used that drug $$ to buy themselves a record, and a video, and fly shit, and how they never ever stop earnin'.

translation: Get off my lawn!

[Rob Instigator]

I wish I had a lawn...

[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

if you actually read the words that are being rapped these days by the rappers coming up, all they talk about is how much $$$ they made selling drugs, how they then used that drug $$ to buy themselves a record, and a video, and fly shit, and how they never ever stop earnin'.

It is bullshit. half of these fucks are talking out their asses daydreamin and pipe-dreamin and rapping about owning Bentleys and Mosbachs when they have to borrow money from some gangster to RENT one for the video shoot, which they can't even drive because that would cost more...

Anyone worth listening to isn't doing that at all. In fact the general consensus for best rap album of the year* on here all couldn't be futher away from your view of what modern day rap is about. Is there shit? Of course there is, but no more than there was 'in the good old days'

"Life ain't nothing but bitches and money" a line by a group who romanticised violence and misogony...in the wonder years of 1988. To make out that braggadocio and is something exclusive to modern rap is clearly not true, and you know it.

*Joey Badass, Kendrick, Lupe Fiasco, Vince Staples and so, and so on.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Anyone worth listening to isn't doing that at all. In fact the general consensus for best rap album of the year* on here all couldn't be futher away from your view of what modern day rap is about. Is there shit? Of course there is, but no more than there was 'in the good old days'

"Life ain't nothing but bitches and money" a line by a group who romanticised violence and misogony...in the wonder years of 1988. To make out that braggadocio and is something exclusive to modern rap is clearly not true, and you know it.

.

I was not talking about braggadoccio. I am talking specifically about the dearth of lyrical variety in what is the newest hip hop that are anything other than how much $$ you have, how much $$ you spend, how you got your $$, how you treat your "bitches", etc.

I am a 41 year old man, who understands that music, art and poetry have license to speak of whatever they want, but quite frankly, to my ears, the music and beats are far outpacing the lyrical content of much new underground hip hop in terms of originality and kick-assness.
The beats are sick, the bass is sick, the song "structures" are innovative and disjointed in the very best way, then the rapper starts spouting off about his Maybachs and bankroll. Tired lyrics.

Chuck D wrote in the liner notes to Nation of Millions... that his advice to young MC's is to read and learn and soak up as much as you can because the more you know the more you can rap to your people about. The way the industry exists currently it is hard for the conscientious rappers to get over and heard by the masses, who are happy to hear banging club beats and hyper-repetitive "rhymes."

It's a shame. It happens with all genres. Look at what passes for popular "rock" music these days....


BTW, that "life aint nothin but bitches and money" line came from a group of guys who were for the most part raised middle class, and who were FAKING being street hoods to shock, as young folks are wont to do. Be careful what you pretend to be, cuz the "kids" take it seriously.

[noisereductions]

Rob again, lyrically, I (we) don't think you're listening to Kendrick, Joey Bada$$, Vince Staples, Chance The Rapper, etc... as they're not at all what you're describing.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by rebeccagotcursedout

yes, maybe you should read more of the argument before a comment. what you posted was predicted in the 90's. and it's only getting worse for hip hop, just like pop punk was the death nail.

you guys need another genre. in my opinion if your encouraged to comment so strongly.

don't give me that old "hip hop is the new canvas" because that's old and I've already stated why.

if you live in a liberal part of the country then there's more than a chance you can't compete with me and my opinions. I see it first hand. you maybe see a daydream fantasy.

What's this? I've spent my entire life in the nation's most liberal areas. It's only made me realize how irritating liberals are. Why then does this mean that "there's more than a chance" that I "can't compete" with you and your opinions?

Did you get lost in your own use of positives and negatives, or was this just one of your deliberate attempts to not make any sense?

[Severian]

And louder, sorry my friend but rap and hip hop really aren't the same thing. It's more like a square is a rectangle is a square situation. Rap, as a genre, is basically just "hip-hop with vocals".

Hip-hop is obviously much more broad. Hip-hop includes instrumental music, beat, scratching production, or sometimes just a vibe. Frank Ocean is hip-hop, more or less, and he was in a rap-heavy collective, but is he "Rap"? No.

Anyway, really. Rectangles and squares.

[Genteel Death]

Rob's post is great but I am not sure what rappers or rock and rollers should be treating as interesting lyrical subjects anymore. There are many things you can write about in a ‘’deep’’ way now, probably a lot more than before. I am not sure the time span you were allowed to use to work out an interesting lyrical context in the past is the same that many musicians have now though. The way almost everyone seems to feel jaded when it comes to listening to music these days is only one of the many obstacles a musician starting out faces when trying to reach out to a crowd large enough you can call a fan base. Obviously you also have many examples of people not giving a shit and being plain cynical businessmen posing as your best friend to squeeze a few bucks out of your naive self. This would never have happened if Sonic Youth were still around, of course. They were pure until the end.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

Rob again, lyrically, I (we) don't think you're listening to Kendrick, Joey Bada$$, Vince Staples, Chance The Rapper, etc... as they're not at all what you're describing.

Those are all great lyricists. I was specifically discussing what is popular in hip hop these days with the kids. the underground rap has always had consciousness. the mainstream used to too

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by Severian

And louder, sorry my friend but rap and hip hop really aren't the same thing. It's more like a square is a rectangle is a square situation. Rap, as a genre, is basically just "hip-hop with vocals".

Hip-hop is obviously much more broad. Hip-hop includes instrumental music, beat, scratching production, or sometimes just a vibe. Frank Ocean is hip-hop, more or less, and he was in a rap-heavy collective, but is he "Rap"? No.

Anyway, really. Rectangles and squares.

when Rhythm & Bullshit acts started being labeled as "Hip Hop" to try and keep their lame-ass love songs relevant and "edgy" that shit spelled the death of true rap music on radio. If your song does not have a sing-along chorus, or a standard verse, chorus-verse structure, it will very likely not be played on what acts as Hip Hop radio these days.

Hip Hop has always been a culture (beats, rhymes, breakin, B-Boys, tagging/graffitti, DJ's and MC's). It was, like all youth culture/counterculture, co-opted by those with the means and ways to make $$ off of selling it to those who had yet to experience it.

The same thing is happening with EDM right now. The sounds have been co-opted by mainstream "artists" and are no longer seen as groundbreaking.

Can't wait to see what is next.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Can we please stop using the word canvas when describing some music?

Yeah, stop confusing this poor old bastard with simile and whatnot!

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Those are all great lyricists. I was specifically discussing what is popular in hip hop these days with the kids. the underground rap has always had consciousness. the mainstream used to too

you're missing my point man... I can't imagine that there's any rapper more popular with the kids than Kendrick right now. Unless I'm just out of touch?

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Severian

Yeah, stop confusing this poor old bastard with simile and whatnot!

Funnily enough my first thought when I read your use of it was the many times I've seen it used by old music journalists in the past. In my book that makes you a plagiarist, as well as a lame poser.

[Severian]

Oh hey, is anyone out there listening to TWELVE REASONS TO DIE II?

'cause I am.

[louder]

Originally Posted by Severian

And louder, sorry my friend but rap and hip hop really aren't the same thing. It's more like a square is a rectangle is a square situation. Rap, as a genre, is basically just "hip-hop with vocals".

Hip-hop is obviously much more broad. Hip-hop includes instrumental music, beat, scratching production, or sometimes just a vibe. Frank Ocean is hip-hop, more or less, and he was in a rap-heavy collective, but is he "Rap"? No.

Anyway, really. Rectangles and squares.

Frank Ocean is R&B man. i wouldn't consider him "hip-hop" in 100 years.

we can argue about genres all day so whatever.

[noisereductions]

Hip Hop is a noun. Rap is a verb.