[Sheriff Rhys Chatham]

I like to think of noise as "Avant-garde having sex with barbed wire!"

[truncated]

Originally Posted by noumenal

Truncated and Savage Clone have been sort of flirting back and forth for a while now, and whenever they do, I picture that creature in Truncated's avatar furiously fucking the ass of the pregnant plastic anatomy model in SC's avatar....

That's a Firey, I'll have you know. And its head detaches from its body - imagine what kind of multitasking it's capable of!

[Glice]

So it is from Labarynth (sp?), no?

[Glice]

Fuck me that's a bastard word to spell... I edited three times and still don't seem to have it right.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by truncated

That's a Firey, I'll have you know. And its head detaches from its body - imagine what kind of multitasking it's capable of!

does it run on batteries or AC?

[truncated]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

does it run on batteries or AC?

Batteries for now, but it's conferring with the Internet Dildo manufacturers about switching to AC. The dildo is far surpassing it in popularity.

Oh, and it's "Labyrinth."

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by noumenal

Hey don't give val-holla-ing too much of a hard time, we go to the same school. Go Tigers!

haha that's right! i love me some tigers! i'm changing my SN to numbawuntigafan! (exclamation point included)

[Glice]

Originally Posted by truncated

Batteries for now, but it's conferring with the Internet Dildo manufacturers about switching to AC. The dildo is far surpassing it in popularity.

Oh, and it's "Labyrinth."

And it's for this reason that I could never learn Welsh. Well, that and absolutely no inclination to learn it other than to figure out what Datblygu are saying, and they're translated the lyrics now.

Words with y's in funny places eh? Who'd 'ave 'em?

[!@#$%!]

gorky's zygotic mynci?

[Savage Clone]

Do not say that in front of me.

[PunkerViolence]

Noise comes in a variety of forms. My dogs constantly make ridiculous amounts of painful noise that often overheats my brain...to the extent where i lash out. But musical noise, with or without any melody, tonal or Atonal is definately a form of art....music can be made by anything. Any tone of any sound can be manipulated into music...if u think about it. Thats whats so great about it....its anything and everything all at once...ranges of instruments.....all different noises, different pitches and that can portray different moods....i could go on, but i need 2 sleep....niteynite

[!@#$%!]

hah
hah hah hah

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by Glice

...I contend that it isn't completely subjective. If it were completely subjective, then why does Merzbow sell far more records, like nearly 10 times as much, as anyone else in noise? Does that not suggest that there is such a thing as a criteria for 'good' and 'bad' within noise? I realise that you probably don't want to follow this thought, but it is exactly why I am interested in noise - there HAS to be some reason why some people are perceived of as better, otherwise the success or otherwise of some artists would be entirely down to the advertising and commerce behind it. That Merzbow is more successful than anyone else, that Merzbow is generally thought of as 'better' MUST (to my mind) invoke the notion of quality, and in turn, this notion of quality must have criteria.

I'm not going to spit invective just yet, but this is the simplest thing in the world for me, and I can rarely see why people constantly appeal to this notion of absolute subjectivity, which is counter-productive and counter-intuitive.

So apologies if this seems pretentious, but this genuinely is a very, very simple thing for me, and I get frustrated that other people don't see it that way.

[note to self - really, you don't care... repeat and relax]

hm. oddly enough, i rarely think of anyone in terms of "better" or "worse". i can say that i prefer one artist over another, but i can't bring myself to be the judge of one's work. merzbow selling many more records than others in the sound world is simpy an indication of his longevity and growth as an artist. of course he has sold more records than *insert obscure artist here*. having over 500 releases, it would be hard for him to not have outsold almost anyone in this category.

[Savage Clone]

I'll bet Cock ESP is up there too.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by val-holla-ing

merzbow selling many more records than others in the sound world is simpy an indication of his longevity and growth as an artist. of course he has sold more records than *insert obscure artist here*. having over 500 releases, it would be hard for him to not have outsold almost anyone in this category.

Which is indicative of...? Does this not have any corellation with anything other than a peculiar phenomenon of record sales? I do agree that it is difficult to judge, but I've made my peace with the inherent flaws of judgement. It is a naturaly tendency of humans to try and distinguish things, and this distinguishing is part and parcel of the notion of judgement.

I don't want you to think I'm laying into you, btw... but I do want to try and communicate something to you. But, I'm more than happy to give up soon, I do need to sleep, and I won't care in the morning.

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by Glice

Which is indicative of...? Does this not have any corellation with anything other than a peculiar phenomenon of record sales? I do agree that it is difficult to judge, but I've made my peace with the inherent flaws of judgement. It is a naturaly tendency of humans to try and distinguish things, and this distinguishing is part and parcel of the notion of judgement.

I don't want you to think I'm laying into you, btw... but I do want to try and communicate something to you. But, I'm more than happy to give up soon, I do need to sleep, and I won't care in the morning.

haha you can "give up" whenever you'd like, but i wasn't really looking at this as an e-battle of any sorts, just a good chance to have a remotely decent conversation (for me, anyways).

maybe his longevity and all that goodness do indeed have a correllation with him being percieved as "better" than others. maybe the correllation a direct one. then again, maybe he's only percieved as "better" because he's made a name for himself over the course of almost 30 years and has a following who deem his work better than other works simply out of loyalty. maybe it's a mixture of all of these and some other things. i don't know why other people like or dislike noise, but i'm sure it has something to do with their personal preferences, making it (at least partially) subjective.

[Savage Clone]

I found an unplayed Merzbow record at work the other day from 1994; "Flare Gun," in an edition of 479.
Sweet.
I have never been a big fan, but I'm sure someone will be very happy with this sometime.

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

I found an unplayed Merzbow record at work the other day from 1994; "Flare Gun," in an edition of 479.
Sweet.
I have never been a big fan, but I'm sure someone will be very happy with this sometime.

haha. wanna sell it to me?

i mean, that's cool.

[Savage Clone]

You can have it if you want, but it's damn expensive.
Such is the situation with old Merzbow; 4,978 releases, all in stupidly tiny quantities.
The guy is a completist's nightmare!

[Glice]

Originally Posted by val-holla-ing

haha you can "give up" whenever you'd like, but i wasn't really looking at this as an e-battle of any sorts, just a good chance to have a remotely decent conversation (for me, anyways).

maybe his longevity and all that goodness do indeed have a correllation with him being percieved as "better" than others. maybe the correllation a direct one. then again, maybe he's only percieved as "better" because he's made a name for himself over the course of almost 30 years and has a following who deem his work better than other works simply out of loyalty. maybe it's a mixture of all of these and some other things. i don't know why other people like or dislike noise, but i'm sure it has something to do with their personal preferences, making it (at least partially) subjective.

Yes. Absolutely. Partially, yes. I agree entirely. Excellent. I'm happy now.

The reason I get quite het up about this subject is because I've spent the last 2 years writing on it, and I've had so many conversations with people where I end up shouting very loudly at their attempts to blithely dismiss my hard work. The word subjective means an awful lot of things and is often used erroneously - I'm not saying you should read up on it before engaging in discourse (that would be stupid)... Well, what I'm saying is that it means an awful lot more than just a mere adjective; there are a lot of people who get very pernicity (sp?) about it. I see red, and I apologise for doing so. Like I say, vested interest and all that.