[hevusa]

Originally Posted by static-harmony

I hate all religious sect, but I do think everyone has the right to believe in the entity of their choice. Just as long as you don't use religion to promote hate, murder, wars, or things that my help out humanity like the catholics had done/ and still do with contraceptions. The whole gay issue is boring is like beating a dead horse.

I agree, people need to be free to decide for themselves. Unfortunately there is an inherent evil contained within anything toting itself as "good".

Catholics and contraception is a GREAT example of how fucked things can under the intoxication of religion. Assisted suicide is another interesting related topic.

[demonrail666]

I've always been interested in why certain people who live in countries that have a large and accepted secular community (like the UK and, to an admittedly lesser degree, the US) remain faithfull to Christianity. I'm not for a second saying that they shouldn't but I think it's interesting, why people believe in something that I'm sure a number of their friends and peers (especially in the UK) dismiss as at best naive and at worst backward - as Gail has mentioned interms of being treated like 'some ignorant backwoods hillbilly' just because of her faith. Is it a result of family upbringing or does it come from experiencing something specific in their life that makes them believe? Or what? I stress that I'm not criticising any Christians for what they believe, I'm just curious as to why.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by hevusa

Seems pretty judgmental... YES, I do care about gay rights. "Belief" plays a huge role into why many minorities have had it so bad in America.

WARNING:Just to make this clear so I don't start getting bashed as usual, I have addressed this thread as such because I was asked in the thread what I believed about this topic so I am responding with complete honesty. I AM NOT preaching or in any trying to teach the gospel and the christian way I am just defending what I believe in. .........OK

Now if you are gonna bring up the the words "belief" and " minorities" we shall ponder on the correlation of the 2 thoughout history. I will ask you something. Where did the existance of Gospel Music come from? Yes you are right!!!! Black folk in the cotton fields, singing thier pains to the GOD that THEY BELIEVED in. They did all they could do to ease thier pain they BELIEVED in something greater than this shit hole of a place. I am astounded and admirous of the black baptist churches down here. It is a fucking beautifuil thing!!! They have so much love and so much belief. They project it in thier sermons more than any other organized group that I have experienced.

Anothor "minority" group that comes to mind are the latino or hispanic groups. There is a big difference between your run of the mill american catholic and a catholic of these cultures. They are much more devout, they are more willing to believe. Many of thier roots have been grown in sorrow. If you never see immense sorrow in your life you will never be able to view their side of the coin.

And we come to the unrecognized "minorites" the poor dipsite your color and whether or not ppl even recognize this as a "minority". In fact lets just use the term "ppl that always get shit on" instead from here on out. They cling to god more so than one who is rich. They have nothing in this life. Life is pretty fuckin hard to you when you are poor. Sometimes all you have left to believe in is god. Again if you have not lived Poverty you cannot know and understand that type of faith and for you to say that they are "dangerous" because they have a little bit of hope in thier lives you are just plain out oblivious and stuck forever in your little rat cage you have built around yourself.

[hevusa]

Native Indians in a BIG way, gays, jews, blacks, non-theists, fucking red-heads for christ's sake (pun intended). You name the minority, "belief" has impacted them negatively.

Time for honesty instead of belief!

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I've always been interested in why certain people who live in countries that have a large and accepted secular community (like the UK and, to an admittedly lesser degree, the US) remain faithfull to Christianity. I'm not for a second saying that they shouldn't but I think it's interesting, why people believe in something that I'm sure a number of their friends and peers (especially in the UK) dismiss as at best naive and at worst backward - as Gail has mentioned interms of being treated like 'some ignorant backwoods hillbilly' just because of her faith. Is it a result of family upbringing or does it come from experiencing something specific in their life that makes them believe? Or what? I stress that I'm not criticising any Christians for what they believe, I'm just curious as to why.

For me it is both reasons. I believe because mt mom taught me and brought me up well. I also believe because of everything that has happened to me in life. I have had a pretty crazy life so far. Faith is what keeps me goin. Thanks for not being a dick

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by hevusa

Native Indians in a BIG way, gays, jews, blacks, non-theists, fucking red-heads for christ's sake (pun intended). You name the minority, "belief" has impacted them negatively.

Time for honesty instead of belief!

jews believe in god dumb assssssss

[SONIC GAIL]

blacks believe in god dumb asssssss

[SONIC GAIL]

think i seen some red heads (and necks) that believe in god dumb asssssssssssssss

[SONIC GAIL]

native indians believe in A or Multiple gods dumb asssssssss

[static-harmony]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I've always been interested in why certain people who live in countries that have a large and accepted secular community (like the UK and, to an admittedly lesser degree, the US) remain faithfull to Christianity. I'm not for a second saying that they shouldn't but I think it's interesting, why people believe in something that I'm sure a number of their friends and peers (especially in the UK) dismiss as at best naive and at worst backward - as Gail has mentioned interms of being treated like 'some ignorant backwoods hillbilly' just because of her faith. Is it a result of family upbringing or does it come from experiencing something specific in their life that makes them believe? Or what? I stress that I'm not criticising any Christians for what they believe, I'm just curious as to why.

I grew up with a somewhat fanatical religious mom. I believed in god up until my teenage years, when she started taking me to all different sects of christianity. That's where I realize they are telling the same story, and accusing the others of being the wrong religion. I also realized that there is no higher power only me, and whatever happens there is no one that set me on that path but myself. I love the stories that the bible tells but I treated it as a story and nothing else.

And from what I remember of the bible God never said to be cruel to one another. That we are not to judge b/c he is the only one that can do that.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by static-harmony

And from what I remember of the bible God never said to be cruel to one another. That we are not to judge b/c he is the only one that can do that.

So God (regardless of specific denomination) teaches us humility and a willingness to accept difference and the necessity of thinking beyond ourselves. I don't think any reasonable person could call those things bad - even if they don't practice them in their own life. So how does the Christian church reconcile itself with a legal system based on an individual being judged in a court of law by their peers? It's not entirely divorced from the process (people are required to swear on the bible before giving evidence) but judgement is decided not by God but by a jury of people. I'm not saying that represents a flaw in Christianity I'm just interested to know how the church deals with this apparent problem of earthly justice - especially when it comes to those states in the US that practice the death penalty - a practice often advocated by the same people who campaign against abortion. I'm not trying to provoke anyone over this. I'm just genuinely confused.

[SONIC GAIL]

@DR666 You are right it does'nt make sense killing is killing. Different groups interpret things different ways mostly to thier liking. Yes christians have done alot of horrid things throughout history. No one can deny that. Not all christians practice what they preach though and believe me it more frustrating to believers than to non because they make ppl look on all of us as fools. Jesus did say in the scriptures to follow the law of the land and give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's to me this is saying that he was for the separation of earthly government and god's government over your faith. I personally do agree with separation of state and church and have no problems with god being taken off of money or out of the pledge of allegiance. WHO CARES I know god does not. That sort of shit is trivial to him I would think. I think that swearing on the bible is a little silly anyway are we in third grade still cross your heart and hope to die. I don't particulary like the death penalty. I do live in FL so we have it. I think it is more of a punishment to sit in the same place for the rest of your life than to kill them. Dying is the easier way out in my opinion. yr mind can put you you hell.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

I know god does not.

belief and knowledge confused once again. Dangerous.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I've always been interested in why certain people who live in countries that have a large and accepted secular community (like the UK and, to an admittedly lesser degree, the US) remain faithfull to Christianity.

Less and less are able to do so, it seems, as non-theism is the fastest growing demographic right now. What I find even more interesting is that the places that have achieved free health care and free education in the world are from those that are non-theist (Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Denmark, Finland, [France and the UK to a lesser degree]). It seems that less religion = more common sense.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by hevusa

In general this is true about Christians. Most "believers" are dipshit stupid because they have never had to question a damn thing. And when they do they just discredit anything that doesn't fit into their lie about God. Which leads to MORE dipshit stupid shit like people wanting abortion and gay marriage illegal, women's equality oppressed, the prohibition of marijuana (even though believers think God created it), and stupid liquor laws that don't make sense. And that is just the tip of the iceberg...

a) why do you keep heavily trolling religious threads if you disagree so openly? Don't you have a bunch of people more sympathetic to discuss your insights with, or does your nihilism not satisfy you enough on its own?

Originally Posted by hevusa

It disproves the views of most organized religion. And greatly questions if there is anything "powerful" in the universe, like a God/Deity. Because if there was such a deity why create imperfect beings that needed to evolve? That makes no logical sense when said Deity could have started with something better.



This is only in an isolated system. Energy can indeed die.

And on a vaguely related note: Antimatter Trapped by CERN Scientists




So you understand that Jesus wasn't actually real and all organized religion is bullshit?? Is that what you are saying?

b) So what if organized religion let you down and hurt your feelings and skinned your knees so badly, why do you have to lash out all the time at us like that class clown in the 4th grade? Hevusa, we get it already! I like you man, but your nihilist routine is getting old and tattered and needlessly antagonistic to a lot of people who otherwise also probably like you. Don't you see that your negatively is destructive and self-defeating? You are proving nothing other than how insecure, naive and angry you are when it comes to spiritual matters. You need to shift your stance and be a bit less aggressive about it, we're all friends here remember? I don't recall anyone bitterly attacking you for your perspectives, why do you then lash out at people unprovoked?

c)ahem, I noticed you did not address my most potent point:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

1) How does evidence of evolutionary change in the human body somehow disprove the concepts of spirituality and the existence or providence of a Deity? That is like saying, "Ah Ha! There is no such thing as music, the sound simply comes from vibrating strings, there is no art at all!"

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i haven't read teh thread, i just wanted to express my disappointment of how in (at least) american english, "christian" has come to mean anti-intellectual anti-science bible thumper inbred yahoo fanatic dipshit.

i grew up as a christian of the catholic variety, and there was no congenital imbecility implied in said word. the jesuits were actually pretty fucking smart, and theology as advanced by scholars, not televangelists.

Christians used to be rather intelligent people on the whole, but an entire right shifting political machine has pushed towards willful ignorance because a stupid population is a controlled population, it is to the shitstem's advantage.. (hence war, prisons, greedy corporations and taxes)

Originally Posted by tcpotbntmy

Bullshit, you just have a limited idea of what god is supposed to represent. Nothing is absolute in this territory, it's a concept, and you're acting with a relatively equal ignorance as the people you're purporting to attack in this thread...

genius!

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

now is the only thing that's real.

absolutely correct, but Rob, we humans have imbeded in our psychology the tendency to avoid the present moment at all costs, because we cannot control any aspect of the present moment, it is utter chaos. Our minds can only control our perceptions of the future, and our memories of the past, and in these realms of fantasy and memory the mind is in absolute and total control, it is its own God(s) and so this is where the mind prefers to be. Spirituality and its growth and ascetic exercise is ENTIRELY designed to enhance a person's consciousness of the present moment, for in the present moment is the only place where we can actually experience God. God does not exist in our memories, and He does not exist in our fantasies or anxieties of the future, in those places like everything else God(s) remains imaginary, but in the present moment of life, which we dreadfully avoid, there only is God(s).

[SONIC GAIL]

"your Self Defeatus Attitude ll Get You Nowhere Fast"

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

absolutely correct, but Rob, we humans have imbeded in our psychology the tendency to avoid the present moment at all costs, because we cannot control any aspect of the present moment, it is utter chaos. Our minds can only control our perceptions of the future, and our memories of the past, and in these realms of fantasy and memory the mind is in absolute and total control, it is its own God(s) and so this is where the mind prefers to be. Spirituality and its growth and ascetic exercise is ENTIRELY designed to enhance a person's consciousness of the present moment, for in the present moment is the only place where we can actually experience God. God does not exist in our memories, and He does not exist in our fantasies or anxieties of the future, in those places like everything else God(s) remains imaginary, but in the present moment of life, which we dreadfully avoid, there only is God(s).

genius, so eloquently put

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

Jesus did say in the scriptures to follow the law of the land and give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's to me this is saying that he was for the separation of earthly government and god's government over your faith.

OK, thanks. I didn't know that and it's exactly the kind of explaination I was looking for.

Originally Posted by hevusa

What I find even more interesting are the countries in the world that have figured out how to provide free health care and education to its citizens happen to be non-theist countries (Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Denmark, Finland, etc).

To be fair, relative to the rest of the world those are very wealthy, stable and equal societies. But yeah, ultimately I agree. The idea that religion offers spritual comfort to the most downtrodden (while helpful) is (for me) a poor substitute for reasonable living conditions and accessible health care. I suppose a religious person may argue that we need both but, for me, caring for the well-being of people in this life takes priority over preparing them for another one that, I'm sure, would be far less appealing if life here was made a bit more bearable. Of course, religion is infinitely more complex than that, but its complexity seems more at the level of philosophy than it does on a practical day to day level. It's a way of thinking about the world in the same way that something like existentialism or postivism is. As a set of ideas I find Christianity (and all other religions) fascinating. I just find it hard to see what its real use is outside of that - except perhaps as a springboard to later broadly relateable ideas, most specifically socialism.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

a) why do you keep heavily trolling religious threads if you disagree so openly? Don't you have a bunch of people more sympathetic to discuss your insights with, or does your nihilism not satisfy you enough on its own?



b) So what if organized religion let you down and hurt your feelings and skinned your knees so badly, why do you have to lash out all the time at us like that class clown in the 4th grade? Hevusa, we get it already! I like you man, but your nihilist routine is getting old and tattered and needlessly antagonistic to a lot of people who otherwise also probably like you. Don't you see that your negatively is destructive and self-defeating? You are proving nothing other than how insecure, naive and angry you are when it comes to spiritual matters. You need to shift your stance and be a bit less aggressive about it, we're all friends here remember? I don't recall anyone bitterly attacking you for your perspectives, why do you then lash out at people unprovoked?

c)ahem, I noticed you did not address my most potent point:



Christians used to be rather intelligent people on the whole, but an entire right shifting political machine has pushed towards willful ignorance because a stupid population is a controlled population, it is to the shitstem's advantage.. (hence war, prisons, greedy corporations and taxes)


genius!

absolutely correct, but Rob, we humans have imbeded in our psychology the tendency to avoid the present moment at all costs, because we cannot control any aspect of the present moment, it is utter chaos. Our minds can only control our perceptions of the future, and our memories of the past, and in these realms of fantasy and memory the mind is in absolute and total control, it is its own God(s) and so this is where the mind prefers to be. Spirituality and its growth and ascetic exercise is ENTIRELY designed to enhance a person's consciousness of the present moment, for in the present moment is the only place where we can actually experience God. God does not exist in our memories, and He does not exist in our fantasies or anxieties of the future, in those places like everything else God(s) remains imaginary, but in the present moment of life, which we dreadfully avoid, there only is God(s).

Why do I do it? Someone needs to speak the truth in regards to God, especially in America, because everyone seems to tip toe around "belief" because it is very "sensitive". Bullshit. The truth is we have as much objective information about God as we do the flying spaghetti monster. Zero fucking percent. Yet the majority of Americans walk around like they are bat shit crazy, knowing what God wants and doesn't want, what God likes and dislikes. Fucking insanity! It is why two loving adults can't get married! It is why I can't smoke a joint in a park (legally).

When you are ready to make things right with your father let me know SuchFriends.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I've always been interested in why certain people who live in countries that have a large and accepted secular community (like the UK and, to an admittedly lesser degree, the US) remain faithfull to Christianity.

Check this out demonrail (it is because they are less intelligent):
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0224132655.htm

Similarly, religion is a byproduct of humans' tendency to perceive agency and intention as causes of events, to see "the hands of God" at work behind otherwise natural phenomena. "Humans are evolutionarily designed to be paranoid, and they believe in God because they are paranoid," says Kanazawa. This innate bias toward paranoia served humans well when self-preservation and protection of their families and clans depended on extreme vigilance to all potential dangers. "So, more intelligent children are more likely to grow up to go against their natural evolutionary tendency to believe in God, and they become atheists."

Young adults who identify themselves as "not at all religious" have an average IQ of 103 during adolescence, while those who identify themselves as "very religious" have an average IQ of 97 during adolescence.