[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

right, i’m also uninterested in chest-thumping claims of purity and cartoon villains. that and the baudrillard nonsese two poles of the same dialectic about morality. enough with the subject.

so, YES. tactics. too much has been obscured by emotion and national baloney.

let’s discuss

you say dier for alli was the fuckup, but i have been saying the colombian subs and actual playing football were what changed the game

here’s what the oracle has to say:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8430156.html

below the video (i’m skipping the video) there’s a really nice write up.

funny enough, he says it’s both things. colombia’s change of shape and dier failing to cope.

then colombia changing shape again and dier dropping deeper making it easier for england at the very end.

i think we can agree with that assessment?

My only issue is that Colombia had to make a change after the goal. They had to strengthen up top or they'd have gone out. It wasn't so much a Plan B as the only option available to them. That's why I initially agreed with the Dier change. I thought we'd absorb their inevitable attacks and then kill them with our pace (and their defence, weakened by finally having to come out) on the counter-attack, but we started passing back instead, trying to keep possession, which we've never been any good at it.

MC called it Colombia's Plan B, but that's like saying that a boxer, behind on points going into the final round has a Plan B when they go for a last minute knockout.

But the most interesting part for me was about Pekerman's switch to a 4-4-2 in the 2nd half of extra time, when England came back into it. I'd noticed Colombia had lost a lot of their momentum then but couldn't work out why, so his analysis made a lot of sense.

[h8kurdt]

On top of that-fuck me I should have gone rock climbing tonight. Piss boring with no football atm.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Choosing players for the next round is hard!

Tell me about it. I'd actually go for more England players but Kane's the only one who looks assured of some returns. Also, having a Brazilian GK and DF worked great in the last round but doesn't look so appealing against Belgium.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

My only issue is that Colombia had to make a change after the goal. They had to strengthen up top or they'd have gone out. It wasn't so much a Plan B as the only option available to them. That's why I initially agreed with the Dier change. I thought we'd absorb their inevitable attacks and then kill them with our pace (and their defence, weakened by finally having to come out) on the counter-attack, but we started passing back instead, trying to keep possession, which we've never been any good at it.

yes of course it was their only option at that point, but it had been an option from the beginning— except not.

colombia had always been capable of playing a more offensive game but instead sat back afraid of counters.

and indeed it was probably the right thing to do, because as you said, you could kill them with your pace.

but your pace was much faster earlier in the game. by the end the speed wasn’t there anymore.

so late in the game was the only time when colombia was free to push forward, because earlier they would have been surprised at the back.

as much as it didn’t work out for them in the penalties, pékerman’s plan was not a bad one.

i know you said that england look rattled after the goal, but both me and cox agree (lmao, that sounded douchy, but dont know how else to say it) that colombia was on top BEFORE the goal, so nerves or whatever were not the cause. you had the game in the bag. but it was colombia’s tactics that changed things.

but colombia was only free to switch when you couldn’t run that fast anymore.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

MC called it Colombia's Plan B, but that's like saying that a boxer, behind on points going into the final round has a Plan B when they go for a last minute knockout.

but that was precisely ali’s rope-a-dope vs. george foreman!!!

ali could not beat foreman on power early in the fight

colombia could not outpace england early in the game

q.e.d.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

But the most interesting part for me was about Pekerman's switch to a 4-4-2 in the 2nd half of extra time, when England came back into it. I'd noticed Colombia had lost a lot of their momentum then but couldn't work out why, so his analysis made a lot of sense.

yeah

[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Tell me about it. I'd actually go for more England players but Kane's the only one who looks assured of some returns. Also, having a Brazilian GK and DF worked great in the last round but doesn't look so appealing against Belgium.

Agreed with the England squad. Anyone but Kane is just a waste it seems. Especially given how Sweden are gonna set up.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

but your pace was much faster earlier in the game. by the end the speed wasn’t there anymore.

But that's the point. It wasn't that we'd run out of pace; tactically we just chose not to exploit it by trying to do a Spain, which we're not good enough to pull off (although to be fair nor are Spain these days)

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

so late in the game was the only time when colombia was free to push forward, because earlier they would have been surprised at the back.

That we'll never know, but yes. in principle at least it's a perfectly acceptable tactic, as proven in the past by Italy and more recently Uruguay. I've no problem with teams doing that, I actually like it. What I don't like is the constant provocation of opponents, etc, that Colombia go in for, which for me only gives defence-minded teams a bad name, as though an emphasise on defence is somehow synonymous with cynicism. Tough yes, but cynical no.

Stuff like the barge or the scuffing don't seem like much in isolation, but everything together just encapsulated Colombia's attitude.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Agreed with the England squad. Anyone but Kane is just a waste it seems. Especially given how Sweden are gonna set up.

I wish Croatia had a more lethal forward.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

But that's the point. It wasn't that we'd run out of pace; tactically we just chose not to exploit it by trying to do a Spain, which we're not good enough to pull off (although to be fair nor are Spain these days)

really?

for me colombia resembled “spain” later in the game— controlling possession, pressing high, circulating the ball, trying to create chances... you mean spain vs. spain?

if so, colombia was better at playing that slow game.

if you could actually play fast at that point but chose not to (??) then it was a poor choice indeed.

but how was that... are you sure this was by choice?

england did attempt some counters but they were nowhere near quick enough i thought. vardy all alone up front... did not pan out

guess i’ll have to rewatch that extra time at some point & reassess.

[demonrail666]

The choice was in bringing on the more defensive minded Dier to try and kill the game by holding onto possession and slowing the pace right down. We've all seen Spain do this, where they'd go a goal up and then bore us all to death by playing out the remaining minutes with little nothing passes around the centre circle. Horrible to watch as a spectacle but very effective with players that're able to do it. (This was where Busquets used to come into his own.) The problem is England doesn't have players that comfortable in possession.

The choice instead of Dier would have been someone more attacking, like Loftus Cheek or Rashford.

So yes it was a poor choice in retrospect but we're all experts after the fact. And England won, so we ultimately got away with it. But there can be few more torturous experiences for an England fan than watching them try to defend a narrow lead.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

The choice was in bringing on the more defensive minded Dier to try and kill the game by holding onto possession and slowing the pace right down. We've all seen Spain do this, where they'd go a goal up and then bore us all to death by playing out the remaining minutes with little nothing passes around the centre circle. Horrible to watch as a spectacle but very effective with players that're able to do it. (This was where Busquets used to come into his own.) The problem is England doesn't have players that comfortable in possession.

oh, right. colombia’s players were very comfortable in possession however

Originally Posted by demonrail666

The choice instead of Dier would have been someone more attacking, like Loftus Cheek or Rashford.

but since you were ahead, there was no need... yeah i see

Originally Posted by demonrail666

So yes it was a poor choice in retrospect but we're all experts after the fact. And England won, so we ultimately got away with it. But there can be few more torturous experiences for an England fan than watching them try to defend a narrow lead.

it didn’t look like a choice to me because just like you were watching from the english perspective i was looking from the colombian team.

so to me it looked more like colombian imposition by bacca, uribe and muriel, than british choice.

as usual michael cox clarifies everything and shows that it was a mix of both, and the 3-5-2. that fucking guy! he’s awesome.

i didn’t see rashford do much when he came in, but maybe that’s how things calmed down for you a bit?

[demonrail666]

I think some games lend themselves to a tactical analysis more than others. Tactics obviously played a part in that game for both sides but the real story seems more about individual moments and players that seem to transcend anything either manager could've planned for. The penalty, Pickford's wonder-save from Falcao, the corner and then finally the drama of the shoot-out. Not saying tactical changes were irrelevant but I doubt anyone will remember that game because of them.

[demonrail666]

I'm at a complete loss choosing players for this next round

[_tunic_]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I'm at a complete loss choosing players for this next round

If you're thinking of adding any extra Belgians to your team, you'd rather not pick Mertens or Carrasco . Rumor goes that they will not be playing against Brasil, but instead Fellaini and Chadli


Too bad that I updated my team yesterday already, and still left Mertens in
But I do have Mbappé as a captain now and two Swedes on the bench because they were cheap


_slavo_ is in big trouble btw, he needs to replace 7 players. So he's going to loose some points right?

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by _tunic_

If you're thinking of adding any extra Belgians to your team, you'd rather not pick Mertens or Carrasco . Rumor goes that they will not be playing against Brasil, but instead Fellaini and Chadli


Too bad that I updated my team yesterday already, and still left Mertens in
But I do have Mbappé as a captain now and two Swedes on the bench because they were cheap


_slavo_ is in big trouble btw, he needs to replace 7 players. So he's going to loose some points right?

Good to know about Belgium, thanks

Belgium v Brazil tomorrow feels like a premature final

[!@#$%!]

last round i ended up with 4 swedes i think and 4 colombians

the swedes paid well defending, mina was max captain and did great with 8pts

but now i had to dump dump dump

costa plus 4 colombians

so i had to pay for 2 replacements (8 points total). brought kane back in

not sure the swedes will do so well this time defending thought im sure they’ll park the bus

and im now stuck with 3 uruguayans who were once brilliant but can’t possibily win this round, so...

catastrophe ahead!

im gonna need 7 replacements every round at this pace

[Bertrand]

I'll be away tomorrow. I sure will catch France-Urugay and Brasil-Belgium but will be off right after that to a whole weekend party, with no internet connection. This I start to resent, as I'll be losing the opportunity to recast a squad member as captain...


Rumors around the French team:
To replace Matuidi, talk was about a choice between Tolisso (Bayern midfielder) and Lemar (Monaco creative midfielder-winger). So it was slightly more offensive than against Argentina, as Cavani won't be fielded. Or if he is, he'll drop suddenly, his calf killing him.
Now, it seems Fekir (Lyon, more creative and on top midfielder-forward who can score now and then) could also be the one to replace Matuidi.
A little bit of him, my favorite Ligue 1 goal from last season: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hhVW6XmwxI

Fears of a congestion of forwards in front of Godin-Gimenez are expressed.


We'll see.

[!@#$%!]

man o man the hour is almost upon us

[demonrail666]

And still I'm no closer to deciding what the fuck I'm gonna do with my squad.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

And still I'm no closer to deciding what the fuck I'm gonna do with my squad.

same here. i boosted bench. been toying with a last second transfer. i have no idea.

[demonrail666]

Loving the little mini-contest between Mbappe and Laxalt.

Great contest all round so far.