[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

well no, obviously they were not the same. early on england was on the attack and colombia was there to defend and destroy their game instead of playing their own, so they played negatively. but i don’t think they were as outrageous as you feel they were. that headbutt was a retaliation for a henderson elbow, for example. our beloved chiellini might have done the same. and henderson neymar’d it some (no somersaults though). this is the game. but i think you felt this way because your team was on the creative side.



well i was originally addressing h8kurdt who said “we made it harder than it needed to be” etc. as if it was england’s choice or prerogative to end up with this result.

my point was that it wasn’t.

respect or not, agree or disagree with tactics or style, colombia could have very well legally beat you on the extra time because by then they had gained the upper hand with a change in tactics. and your defense wasn’t what it had been earlier.

...

and funny thing to add here: i was just watching telemundo’s commentary (i watched the game on fox, which was pro-england) and the telemundo commentators are all up in arms complaining about the bad ref and how that penalty wasn’t really a penalty because it began with a slap from kane and they all fell bla bla bla etc. they even have the ref from the 2006 world cup final saying it’s debatable but he wouldn’t have called it.

ha ha ha ha ha!

see. everyone has their bias.

apparently pékerman was also complaining about the ref in his press conference. im gonna go hear what he said.

but anyway—congrats man, you’ve passed the biggest hurdle so far. enjoy your party!

But they didn't so the point is moot. Maybe if they'd actually dplayed less negatively they'd have won but they decided that was the ebat way and they got exactly what they deserved.

Onto Sweden. Gonna be a tough game no matter what anyone thinks. Can we do it? Can't see why not. In my eyes Sterling needs to be dropped for Rashford.

[_slavo_]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

dammit, i got curious about what the world thought of the game.

curious to hear the dutch/belgian/french/slovakian perspective

to be honest, I don't think that the ref was trying to help the English in anyway.
Englishmen wanted to play football more than the Colombians did.

Colombians wanted to destroy English tempo and kick them off balance. For the majority of the match, though, they were completely lost in this effort and what almost saved them, was pure luck - one lucky shot and subsequent corner.

Other than that, it was just ill-tempered foul play and nerves. Dissapointing performance.

Yerri Mina was superb, though (not only for the goal itself). I heard rumours Barcelona wanted to get rid of him, which must be a joke, as he must be a better central midfielder than Pique+Umtiti, combined.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Onto Sweden. Gonna be a tough game no matter what anyone thinks. Can we do it? Can't see why not. In my eyes Sterling needs to be dropped for Rashford.

Yeah, it'll be hard. England are gonna be knackered after last night. Sweden will have had an extra days rest and a shorter, less bruising encounter with Switzerland. Man for man I think we're better but I'm not sure what condition we'll be in.


Agree about Sterling for Rashford but can also see Alli being a doubt now.

[_tunic_]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

my favorite ref in this world cup is the dutch de kuypers. pure class as far as i’ve seen. commanding, fair, on top of everything, solid performer all around.

I totally agree. Best drinks in the world

 

But seriously, is Sweden that good? I reckon they could be an easier job to handle than the Colombians, especially their defence could be less tough and there's more open space. But I haven't seen that much of them this tournament, e.g. missed their game against the Swiss. Or I've already forgotten that I watched it, one of those


oh, and the main reason why I'm pleased that England won yesterday is that I only need to replace two Spaniards in my team. If England had lost, I would have had to replace three more

[h8kurdt]

Thank you! Someone agrees!

I had an argument with a friend of mine. He was saying he's doing just fine and should be kept in the squad. My point was that the job he's meant to be doing-setting up goals and scoring he just absolutely isn't doing. The fact that he's not scored since 2015 for England is insane. Something isn't clicking for him and Rashford has shown he can score when he comes on.

All through this tournament I've been desperate for Sterling to score, in the the hope that once he gets rid of the albatross around his neck it'll fit into place for him. Alli looks a doubt anyway doesn't he? Suspect Loftus-Cheek will help bridge that gap between Henderson and the forwards. Unless that's the bollocks talking.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by _tunic_

VIDEO: Young Kids Hilariously Imitate Neymar's Antics on Being Tackled or Fouled

Neymar should combine is love of diving with his (alleged) love of football and try and help save those poor kids in Thailand

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Thank you! Someone agrees!

I had an argument with a friend of mine. He was saying he's doing just fine and should be kept in the squad. My point was that the job he's meant to be doing-setting up goals and scoring he just absolutely isn't doing. The fact that he's not scored since 2015 for England is insane. Something isn't clicking for him and Rashford has shown he can score when he comes on.

All through this tournament I've been desperate for Sterling to score, in the the hope that once he gets rid of the albatross around his neck it'll fit into place for him. Alli looks a doubt anyway doesn't he? Suspect Loftus-Cheek will help bridge that gap between Henderson and the forwards. Unless that's the bollocks talking.

I like Sterling but I do increasingly wonder if he has anything besides pace. His finishing isn't great, his 1st touch is actually pretty bad and he doesn't seem to be a great crosser or anything like that. Maybe he scores a lot for Man City simply because of the sheer number of chances they create.

But the thing we really miss most is a creative midfielder. Our strength is our pace and, in Kane, a truly world class finisher, but we don't have anyone who can provide that clever little through ball to unlock a well-drilled defence. Wiltshire was the obvious candidate but that's its own story and I can't pretend I was fighting for him to be selected before the tournament. Kane tried to play that role last night when Vardy came on. It's not his strength and only really managed to reduce his own threat up-front. It's more a problem for the future but one we're gonna have to solve eventually.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Symbols, your comment about how actually Colombia made it harder for themselves is nonsense. Fact is England let in a goal from the only corner by them. A corner that should have been defended better. England deserved to win by a country mile, and it's just that from that stupid mistake took us to get to penalties.

I watched the first half again you'd be mad to think that Colombia didn't delve into any tactics to get a rise out of the players. Not saying g that England were whiter than white, but they were saints compared to people like Cuadrado etc

oh no, that’s not what i said. or at least what i meant to say. sorry if that was confusing.

i thought you originally had said england made it harder for themselves.

what i tried to argue back was that it was colombia that made it harder for england.

yes colombia sucked, but they stayed in the fight, and at some point late in the game gained the upper hand, finally lost on penalties. certainly wasn’t a cakewalk for you, and was never going to be one.

and congrats on winning! i thought it was well deserved.

also—i completely agree colombia used negative tactics! but i didn’t think they were despicable villains, or that they’re a people whose opinions don’t count. that’s where i draw the line.

im not totally against national bias by the way. what would be the point of a world cup without that? i enjoy my own biases in this contest. i just think there’s a danger to believing one’s own bullshit past a certain point.

btw, if the colombians think they lost due to the ref, they’re fucking deluded. i do understand it’s a coping mechanism though. in the (four?) stages of grief, denial comes first. this is why i was laughing at the telemundo guys. complete denial. absolute grief. i did feel bad for pékerman—-and yet, i can laugh at james.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i completely agree colombia used negative tactics! but i didn’t think they were despicable villains, or that they’re a people whose opinions don’t count. that’s where i draw the line.

Who's ever said their opinions don't count? I did think that team was a disgrace, and still do, but I haven't extended that to the Colombian people, nor would I. There are teams I like in this WC and there are teams I don't like, based on the way they play, not the people they represent. A few years ago I loved the Spanish team because I fell in love with how they played, but not now, because they bore me to tears, and yet my affection for the Spanish people remains as strong as ever.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Who's ever said their opinions don't count? I did think that team was a disgrace, and still do, but I haven't extended that to the Colombian people, nor would I.

i thought that was what you meant by this:

Originally Posted by demonrail666

You're only relaying this to show us what a prat Peckerman is, right? I mean obviously nobody who actually watched the game could take his version of events even remotely seriously.

Anyway, they're going home, where they can spin their bullshit all they want while the rest of the world forgets all about them.

the whole of colombia was taking him seriously! the latino teevee over here was all up in arms! the brazilians too as you read. maradona too haaa haaaa—he’s saying colombia was robbed (but maradona is a lunatic.)

i personally don’t side with the “we were robbed” narrative. i just thought pékerman was completely wrecked emotionally when he said that. poor fucking guy.

but yeah millions of people who watched the same game as you construed a different narrative from it. those people do exist. and they take their own narratives as valid as you take yours. everyone feels self-righteously justified.

“the rest of the world”— they’re a big chunk of it.

that’s what needs acknowledgement. you don’t need to agree with them.

again, i’m not defending the colombian narrative here.

but it’s hilarious/shocking to me how we are all watching events that are being objectively recorded by cameras and everybody’s interpretations differ.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ithose people do exist. and they take their own narratives as valid as you take yours.

Plenty of people have managed to convince themselves that the Holocaust never happened, that the world is run by a race of alien lizards and that Elvis is still alive. What can you do?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Plenty of people have managed to convince themselves that the Holocaust never happened, that the world is run by a race of alien lizards and that Elvis is still alive. What can you do?

lmao

okay—but you weren’t fighting an army of bond villains either!

[h8kurdt]

Maradona goes on a rant about the game

Suck it up you cheat

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

lmao

okay—but you weren’t fighting an army of bond villains either!

No, but seriously. Let's move beyond this. I wouldn't mind debating what actually happened in the game. H8kurdt says we made life hard for ourselves, I agree. You disagree. That's more interesting to me than talking about the credibility of a man's grief-stricken outbursts or some kind of post-colonial rationalisation of simulation.

In retrospect I now think bringing on Dier for Alli, which I thought was a sensible decision when it happened, was the point for me where we lost control of the game.

[demonrail666]

Also, Michael Cox's analysis of events:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8430156.html

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

No, but seriously. Let's move beyond this. I wouldn't mind debating what actually happened in the game. H8kurdt says we made life hard for ourselves, I agree. You disagree. That's more interesting to me than talking about the credibility of a man's grief-stricken outbursts or some kind of post-colonial rationalisation of simulation.

In retrospect I now think bringing on Dier for Alli, which I thought was a sensible decision when it happened, was the point for me where we lost control of the game.

right, i’m also uninterested in chest-thumping claims of purity and cartoon villains. that and the baudrillard nonsese two poles of the same dialectic about morality. enough with that theme.

so, YES. tactics. too much has been obscured by emotion and national baloney.

let’s discuss

you say dier for alli was the fuckup, but i have been saying the colombian subs and actual playing football were what changed the game

here’s what the oracle has to say:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8430156.html

below the video (i’m skipping the video) there’s a really nice write up.

funny enough, he says it’s both things. colombia’s change of shape and dier failing to cope.

then colombia changing shape again and dier dropping deeper making it easier for england at the very end.

i think we can agree with that assessment?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Also, Michael Cox's analysis of events:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8430156.html

ha ha ha! i was writing my post while you posted that

another thing he says— trippier your secret weapon?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by _tunic_

I totally agree. Best drinks in the world

 

haaa haaa haaa. i had to google the guy to get his name right

björn KUIPERS!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Björn_Kuipers

i’m sorry i’m terrible with your language

but great ref so far!

[h8kurdt]

Choosing players for the next round is hard!

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Choosing players for the next round is hard!

i still have suarez in but without cavani i honestly think uruguay has a snowflake’s chance in hell, as they say

gonna have to end up paying to make sufficient transfers