[krastian]

"but i think if SY approached the message board like a band like Animal Collective who some read the board a lot and talk about stuff with people, all this cold hearted review nonsense wouldnt occur. and i guess you can say that that is putting something on someone to do something to please someone else, but im just saying that if SY is sad or bummed as you put it, they should come on here and talk to the people interested in them about it, and maybe they would feel less sad."

Do you really need the proof of SY posting here to validate the fact that they don't want their so called "fans" helping to spread around a copy of their album that hasn't even been released? Jesus......come on.

[AllHandsOnTheBigOne]

Originally Posted by Feelyat

And so the underlying issue, the source of all of this trouble I think, is that we've become so selfish and thoughtlessly hungry for music that we're willing to compromise the artists' intentions.

I thought the artist's intentions was for people to have access to their art.

I don't see how lack of respect for a release date, a stupid fucking date, is comprimising the artists intentions.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by shitstain

i will agree that reviews are mostly dumb and who really gives a fuck about what someone else thinks of something like an SY album

but i will also say that who gives a fuck about what some reviewer in a magazine says.. what i mean is, there is no different between the reviewer who posts on here and tells you where to get it, and the reviewer in a magazine who tells you about it and that its available to buy in all major retail outlets.

i also imagine it does suck for SY to have to read all this shit.. but i think if SY approached the message board like a band like Animal Collective who some read the board a lot and talk about stuff with people, all this cold hearted review nonsense wouldnt occur. and i guess you can say that that is putting something on someone to do something to please someone else, but im just saying that if SY is sad or bummed as you put it, they should come on here and talk to the people interested in them about it, and maybe they would feel less sad.

Who gives a fuck about you? (I mean the general you, not you in particular, shitstain.)

I don't understand how people can even begin to justify leaking/ripping by whining, "but we're EXCITED, we're TRUE fans, we're so eager to hear it, why should we have to wait?"

Did the universe suddenly relocate its nexus onto your sorry asses? Should SY completely revisit its practice of having a release date, just because you can't hold your load? You poor THINGS, it must be awful!

If you like the band and respect their work, then respect their decisions. Grow up, and obtain the album the way it was intended to be obtained.

And, what should they do, come on here and justify to their fans why they'd prefer their album wasn't passed around like a whore's phone number?

First of all, I think that's fairly obvious.

Second of all, while to an extent fans are integral in making music, a band is in no way beholden to its fans. You either like what they do, or you don't. They don't have to answer to anyone.

[shitstain]

all im saying is you can get mad and alienate people for doing things you dont like.. or you can ignore them or embrace them as something weird you didnt expect that is kind of funny about life

[Feelyat]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

I thought the artist's intentions was for people to have access to their art.

I don't see how lack of respect for a release date, a stupid fucking date, is comprimising the artists intentions.

Because that's the date it was intended to come out. I know they wanted it out on 6-6-6 and the record label probably fucked them on that, but perhaps they wanted it to be a summer record. Perhaps they wanted it only a few weeks fresh before they went out on tour so that when you go see them, the record will mean something a little different. Perhaps they wanted people to have access to their art in the kind of packaging they intend for it to have. Perhaps they wanted people to have high quality access to their art. And perhaps you really have no sympathy/empathy/concern whatsoever. Such is the music-listening culture.

[scott v]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

I thought the artist's intentions was for people to have access to their art.

I don't see how lack of respect for a release date, a stupid fucking date, is comprimising the artists intentions.

I think you are slightly missing the point, the intentions are indeed that but they also involve being w/ the TERMS of the artists, they specifically have a date set w/ the record label for a reason. The band wants the release on June 13th, which involves the music, the art, and thus the complete package... what is the point in intently getting a hold of some mp3 version? other than being impatient enough from feeling starved of not hearing it for 8 weeks... damn sad...

[truncated]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

I thought the artist's intentions was for people to have access to their art.

I don't see how lack of respect for a release date, a stupid fucking date, is comprimising the artists intentions.

What an artist puts out is owned by them. It is their property. They choose the terms of its dissemination to the public.

I don't think this is a difficult concept -

If a band doesn't want ITS music available before a certain date, then it shouldn't be! Who the fuck are you (again, general you) to demand anything otherwise? Did you write it? Did you produce it? Did you record it? Then it ain't yours, and you ought to show some damn respect and let them call the shots.

[shitstain]

i really don't understand why you feel you have to seperate and make a distinction between BAND and its FANS. if people were just cooler and more upfront, this internet thing wouldnt seem so big and mysterious, but is actually very cool and i can be closer to all of you, and you can be closer to me, and that is more RESPECT than purchasing the current marketable platform of music.

why should people have to wait? why shouldn't they wait? why anything? because thats what the system is setup to be? you think sonic youth CHOSE to put their music on cds. in a way yes they chose, but not really. there are a limited number of ways to put out music in a mass produced and listenable way, sonic youth have always seemed to CHOOSE the one that everyone else CHOOSES.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by shitstain

all im saying is you can get mad and alienate people for doing things you dont like.. or you can ignore them or embrace them as something weird you didnt expect that is kind of funny about life

I say, if they don't like it, then fuck 'em. If a band is making music for the sake of pleasing its fans, then they're doing it for the wrong reasons.

[chabib]

release dates are more an issue of giving everyone an equal shot at access to something. it does more to isolate people to banty about the fact that you have something that they don't than it does for a band to be dismayed by the fact that not everyone has access to this thing at the same time.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by shitstain

i really don't understand why you feel you have to seperate and make a distinction between BAND and its FANS. if people were just cooler and more upfront, this internet thing wouldnt seem so big and mysterious, but is actually very cool and i can be closer to all of you, and you can be closer to me, and that is more RESPECT than purchasing the current marketable platform of music.

why should people have to wait? why shouldn't they wait? why anything? because thats what the system is setup to be? you think sonic youth CHOSE to put their music on cds. in a way yes they chose, but not really. there are a limited number of ways to put out music in a mass produced and listenable way, sonic youth have always seemed to CHOOSE the one that everyone else CHOOSES.

*Twitches*

[scott v]

Originally Posted by shitstain

i really don't understand why you feel you have to seperate and make a distinction between BAND and its FANS. if people were just cooler and more upfront, this internet thing wouldnt seem so big and mysterious, but is actually very cool and i can be closer to all of you, and you can be closer to me, and that is more RESPECT than purchasing the current marketable platform of music.

why should people have to wait? why shouldn't they wait? why anything? because thats what the system is setup to be? you think sonic youth CHOSE to put their music on cds. in a way yes they chose, but not really. there are a limited number of ways to put out music in a mass produced and listenable way, sonic youth have always seemed to CHOOSE the one that everyone else CHOOSES.

ok then put yourself in the band's shoes then for 2 minutes...

what would you do with your new album?

[AllHandsOnTheBigOne]

Originally Posted by Feelyat

Because that's the date it was intended to come out. I know they wanted it out on 6-6-6 and the record label probably fucked them on that, but perhaps they wanted it to be a summer record. Perhaps they wanted it only a few weeks fresh before they went out on tour so that when you go see them, the record will mean something a little different. Perhaps they wanted people to have access to their art in the kind of packaging they intend for it to have. Perhaps they wanted people to have high quality access to their art. And perhaps you really have no sympathy/empathy/concern whatsoever. Such is the music-listening culture.

Release dates are set to allow time for promotion, to be able to organize and package the albums so they can be shipped to various retailers. There's nothing significant about that partcular day. I don't see why any sort of reverence should be attached to the release date.

If the concerns are economic, I can't think of a better way to promote your band than allowing as many people as possible to hear your music.

If the concerns are artistic, music is music. It's not going to be effected by packaging or anything like that.

[samuel]

People should just wait until it's released to hear it. I think I accidently voted for the fourth option in the poll, but whatever, it's just a stupid poll. I must have misread it or something. If you respect the band, you should wait until they want you to hear it.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by chabib

release dates are more an issue of giving everyone an equal shot at access to something. it does more to isolate people to banty about the fact that you have something that they don't than it does for someone to be dismayed by the fact that not everyone has access to this thing at the same time.

I
hate
smug
pretentious
bastards

[truncated]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

Release dates are set to allow time for promotion, to be able to organize and package the albums so they can be shipped to various retailers. There's nothing significant about that partcular day. I don't see why any sort of reverence should be attached to the release date.

If the concerns are economic, I can't think of a better way to promote your band than allowing as many people as possible to hear your music.

If the concerns are artistic, music is music. It's not going to be effected by packaging or anything like that.

I think this is simple -

if SY believed that was the best course of action to take, there'd be a link on this site to Ripped tracks.

Is there? Hmm? Hmm?

[dark globe]

Originally Posted by shitstain

all im saying is you can get mad and alienate people for doing things you dont like.. or you can ignore them or embrace them as something weird you didnt expect that is kind of funny about life

the french have a saying, which i shall poorly translate - "never talk about colours or fruit, you'll never agree"

but this a fascinating thread, it just shows the thing i think people here should concentrate on, its a community bought together by a love for one band. that would never happened before the net (not to this extent anyway) and along with the net comes the complete freedom to listen and find whatever by whoever. whats the point in swearing at people who are excited at getting something they want? we all know the age old argument, which runs sooooo true, majority of fans here will dl it, listen to it, buy it, go see the bands on tour, buy a t shirt....

and as someone else said, what the fucks a date in the big scheme of things? a deadline for the distributers and cd pressing plants, thats all.

you know, chabibs replies have saddened me somewhat, as the closest thing to a band viewpoint on this, his seems somewhat well, brash and single minded.

if a band wants to avoid a leak, theres ways. and it is the bands problem to deal with, if they are happy to send a cd to the press, then they are happy for it to be heard. simple as.

i remember radiohead when they released ok computer, they sent it as a tape glued into a walkman!!! kid a was only played at listening parties. etc etc.

then httf was leaked, and if you believe some people, intentially by the band but was low quality mp3s, that would mean you were surprised by the sheer jump in quality when you got home the sexy cd in its map case goodness.

[shitstain]

Originally Posted by scott v

ok then put yourself in the band's shoes then for 2 minutes...

what would you do with your new album?

put myself in sonic youths shoes? i dont know if i really understand the way they want to put out an album. if they want to put out an album so that everyone gets it at the same time, the same quality? then just put the best possibly quality (if thats what they want) on the internet. this does not meet a lot of peoples demands on sonic youth and does not make them much money, but that is a way. or if they still wanted to go the cd route, they could not send advance copies to anyone and keep it very tight. but the reality is, it will be leaked. the only way you can control it not being leaked is by leaking it yourself, and by leaking it yourself i mean releasing the album officially on the internet.

chabib your argument about release dates giving everyone a fair chance to hear it at the same time so no one can hold anything over anyones head is the same reasoning people use to make people wear uniforms

[scott v]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

Release dates are set to allow time for promotion, to be able to organize and package the albums so they can be shipped to various retailers. There's nothing significant about that partcular day. I don't see why any sort of reverence should be attached to the release date.

If the concerns are economic, I can't think of a better way to promote your band than allowing as many people as possible to hear your music.

If the concerns are artistic, music is music. It's not going to be effected by packaging or anything like that.

i have to disagree abit here, is it really "promoting" by having as many people hear your music as possible for a release date? yeah thats the purpose of distibuted PROMO copies but what about those who've created mp3s out of these PROMOS and widley distribute it on soulseek? is it still promotion for the band? or is it way for greedy little fish to take advantage of someone elses musical work for their own self satisifaction...

Music is music but w/ SY and alot of bands (not all) packaging and artwork is also a significant factor if you think otherwise then you seem to be missing somethign about what the band has been doing...

[chabib]

Originally Posted by dark globe

you know, chabibs replies have saddened me somewhat, as the closest thing to a band viewpoint on this, his seems somewhat well, brash and single minded.

i'm not here to make friends.