[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

technically yr right.

you are a genius!

Originally Posted by Torn Curtain

I'm not a Pistols fan but at least they paved the way for Joy Division, The Cure and other great British post-punk bands.

actually, that is the worst fucking part! It sucks that Nirvana did the same thing for all of the crappy post-grunge bands from Blink 182 up unto Fall Out Boy.... god it is terrible, and the ignorance of all these youth makes it even more sick. but they are incurable, but as Peter Tosh sang, "you can't blaim the youth when they go wrong... and you can't fool them"

once I was eating mushrooms with this dude across the street from me, and at the time he was dating this like 15 year old chick (we were 21) which aside from being creepy enough, he had 'fake' dreads and I had 'real' dreads, he was some dude, I was ras and he was not, and so around 4 something in the morning his young girlfriend says, I want to get dreads too, so he proceeds to get out a dog comb and some rubber bands, well I was a disgusted as an acoustic bluegrass purist at an eurotrash electronica festival, so I without much convincing, cut off all of this girls hair, and sit there watching him natt up her hair with a towel while smoking cigarettes until the sun came up... the next day she combed out all of the knots, but at the same time began to promote the "authentic" dread method so to speak, and within months all of these kids were running around looking like gutter punks with real natty dreads, but they knew NOTHING of ras or dread culture, and to boot, were checking and punking other kids who had "fake" dreads.... the whole thing was rather hilarious to myself, and so the point is, kids will always miss the point. only a few bright young souls will ever get it, but I suppose that is same with everyone, adults, elderly and my fellow Americans included...

[Glice]

What a load of self-righteous, pious and convoluted bullshit that post was. Very well done.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by Dead-Air

I don't see how anyone can say the band that recorded Raw Power wasn't punk, nor the band who the Sex Pistols ended their career with a cover by. Arguably all of the best punk bands could also be deemed rock 'n roll as they were actively bringing life back to that corpse. The Stooges were at it well before the rest of the pack, but that doesn't make them anything but the leaders. They set the standard for what would be considered punk by bringing a new primitivism to the rock form that bordered on minimalism and backing that up with an energy and intensity that hadn't really been seen before.

That said, they will always be considered more "proto" than simply "punk" as the godfathers they were, and the Pistols will always be the punk rock archetype.

Punk was a term coined after the stooges...there you go. punk wasn't even a genre of music when the stooges were around, so why go back in time trying to label them something they were never to begin with?

people have their ideas of punk. me, i grew up in skating and hardcore, so for people who never were really into hardcore, punk or skating, their ideas of punk seem to be more homogenized.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

well, as far as their music is concerned, i havent really listened to 'em much in years. theres not a shitload of material out there, and as a band they werent really together long enough to evolve. however, at the same time, that what i love about 'em. considering the brief time they were together, they wrote (and yes, they wrote them) some pretty memorable songs. id still listen to em if i wasnt so burned out on em.

the pistols were just fun. i still think the whole idea of the pistols (fabrications/controversial aspects/whatever aside) are still fun. they had a major ipact on alot of bands to pic up and play...yes...a lot of bands that ended up being better than the pistols themselves, but thats despite the point. shit, thereed be no crass if it wasnt for the pistols. even though crass went on to make fun of the pistols, the real "founder" of crass, penny rembaud, has made it quite clear that the pistols was his inspiration to actually start a band to begin with.

and crass, by far, as one of the best bands ever...punk, rock and roll, experimental, whatever...its allllll there with crass. ill always love that band. shit, ill always love the pistols too. even if i dont listen to em anymore.

its became such a cliche (and im NOT saying thats what yr doing) for kids to dis the pistols as being complete shit...but talk about shit like fugazi like they are gods. if it wasnt for the pistols, theyre may not be a fugazi. ian was obviously more influenced by the politcal aspects of brittish punk (he was ordering a lot of over-seas singles back in the day...thats how he learned to make the minor threat photocpied album sleeves) that he was the more nasty/debaucherous aspectes of typical early american punk. (and keep in mind, im not ripping on fugazi im jusat using them as an example). and wether or not he was a pistols fan (which, he was at one point) that matters very little. half the bands he was seriously influenced by were influenced by the pistols.


i just think history is very important. it bums me out the stooges havent been inducted into the rock n' roll hall of fame when the pistols have...theyred be to pistols most likely if it wasnt for the stooges...but that goes on and on.

theyll be remembered long after most of the punk/post punk going on today is long forgotten...which to me says they did something really interesting.

crass was one of the better uk bands for sure. i thought the sex pistols were a bit overrated. they had some good songs but some really boring songs too. ramones came out earlier and had much more intensity and energy. sex pistols music really was just rock 'n roll.

i guess i always got the feeling steve jones tried too hard to be thunders, which always irks me when i hear the pistols. influence is important but ripping off is quite another.

[Cantankerous]

la la la
there's nothing wrong with the sex pistols if you forget the "politics" of it. forget the image, forget mclaren, yeah yeah yeah all that bullshit, whatever, just LISTEN to it for fucks sake and if you dont like it SHUT UP

[Norma J]

Lily. Now now. Don't be rude.

[Florya]

1. A Punk song that defines the genre: The Damned - Smash it Up
2. A Punk band that defines the genre: Iggy & The Stooges
3. The ultimate Punk band lineup (Vox/Lead/Rhythm/Bass/Drums): Iggy/Joey Ramone/ - /Sid/Rat Scabies
4. One Punk album you would want on a desert island: Never Mind The Bollocks
5. One Punk song that makes you dance: Don't do dancing.
6. One Punk song that makes you think: Throbbing Gristle - Slug Bait
7. A band that should be thought of as Punk, but rarely are: Suicide
8. A band that shouldn't be thought of as Punk, but regularly are: Stranglers
9. British or American: American for starting the Punk Rock movement - British for ending it.
10. Sonic Youth's most Punk Rock song (no covers): Subhuman

[Cantankerous]

joey ramone doesn't play guitar!

[Florya]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

joey ramone doesn't play guitar!

your point being?

Originally Posted by Florya

7. A band that should be thought of as Punk, but rarely are: Suicide

Suicide were the first band that I've thought of when I read that question. Also, somehow, early-Jesus and Mary Chain. Not that the term punk isn't mentioned when people write about them, but you get the impression that they aren't considered a punk band as such.

[Cantankerous]

ive always thought of them as punk.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Also, somehow, early-Jesus and Mary Chain. Not that the term punk isn't mentioned when people write about them, but you get the impression that they aren't considered a punk band as such.

I guess they were a bit late on the scene.
But they were a breath of fresh air in 1984/5.

[Rob Instigator]

I always thought of jesus and mary chain as soft ass wussy proto-shoegaze, not punk by any means.

If one band had the 'fuck you' attitude of the best punk rock, it was them. At least when they first started.

[Rob Instigator]

I will take yr word for it.

I have never been a big fan.

And before them.......and after them.....

[dionysusundone]

1. A Punk song that defines the genre: The Germs-Circle One
2. A Punk band that defines the genre: Crass
3. The ultimate Punk band lineup (Vox/Lead/Rhythm/Bass/Drums): ...i hate these questions, next.
4. One Punk album you would want on a desert island: Christian Death-Only Theatre Of Pain
5. One Punk song that makes you dance: Christian Death-Romeo's Distress
6. One Punk song that makes you think: Crass-White Punks On Hope
7. A band that should be thought of as Punk, but rarely are: Grateful Dead
8. A band that shouldn't be thought of as Punk, but regularly are: Who cares...
9. British or American: Brazilian if postpunk counts.
10. Sonic Youth's most Punk Rock song (no covers): Death Valley 69

[jetengine]

1. A Punk song that defines the genre: 'Who Does Lisa Like?' (1978) by Rachel Sweet

2. A Punk band that defines the genre: Ramones

3. The ultimate Punk band lineup (Vox/Lead/Rhythm/Bass/Drums): Ian Anderson/Django Reinhardt/Jan Akkerman/Ray Brown/Carl Palmer (Ask a silly question....)

4. One Punk album you would want on a desert island: The Clash, The Clash (North American version)

5. One Punk song that makes you dance: The Clash, 'Clash City Rockers'

6. One Punk song that makes you think: anything by the Dead Kennedys

7. A band that should be thought of as Punk, but rarely are: The Jam during their first year or two...?

8. A band that shouldn't be thought of as Punk, but regularly are: The Stooges--punk bands don't record 10-minute ragas with John Cale on viola; nor do they record free-form/improvisational jazz with Steve McKay on sax.

9. British or American: American

10. Sonic Youth's most Punk Rock song (no covers): 'Silver Rocket'

 

 

 

[Norma J]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

exactly...which would support everything ive been trying to argue with w/ norma.


its a never ending process.

Fuck off. You don't even know what you're saying.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

me neither rob.....however, there were plenty of bands during that time with a fuck you attitude other than JAMC. plenty plenty plenty.

Maybe in the US, I dunno. But in the UK in the mid-80s the JAMC, as Sarramkrop says, were definitely something very fresh. The problem as to whether they could be considered punk has more to do with the time they emerged than anything else. Either way, they were definitely more 'punk' than a band like The Stranglers, that's for sure.