[Glice]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

sorry man. you're getting old. it's sad, but true.

Being right is by no means an indication of being old.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

As a 207-lb vegan with a 7-foot amplifier and a penchant for winter bicycle commuting, I will take this opportunity to say that if you can't hack 5 minutes outside in the winter, you are the pantywaist, huge cock or no.
I took you for a lot of things, but I never took you for a pansy.
The disappointment is palatable.

Look, it's quite simple - I'm British, and therefore I whinge unerringly about everything, I live in a castle, I drink lots of tea etc etc.

You are American, and therefore very, very stupid and say "Yee-haaa!" and "Gee" a lot and sleep with our women because you have chewing gum.

If we're playing this game, I have been known to go outdoor midnight swimming in Winter. But that's entirely different to going to and from my warm comfortable seat just for the sake of some snout.

[Glice]

Oh, and I was going to give a hearty "hurrah!" to Hip Priest and mention that's the first time I've noticed him using profanity.

[Savage Clone]

Originally Posted by Glice

If we're playing this game, I have been known to go outdoor midnight swimming in Winter. But that's entirely different to going to and from my warm comfortable seat just for the sake of some snout.

OK, OK.
You're tough.
Super tough.
With a cock that would make a centaur weep with jealousy.

[Glice]

I think you might well be the one vegan I keep when I take over the world. Now, go about your business as you were.

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

...I just don't want to go outside to smoke in the cold.

 

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Glice

Being right is by no means an indication of being old.

it was right maybe in the XX century, but times change and so does "right".

[Savage Clone]

I just now realized I said "The disappointment is palatable."

I suppose it is, but that's not what I meant to say at all.

Ack.

[Norma J]

The smoking ban is great. If you want to smoke, that's fine, but I don't want to inhale your left over smoke. I'd say the same if I smoked.

I'd say the same if someone was constantly farting in a room I was in too.

[ALIEN ANAL]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

Smokers, listen. The ban gives you the easiest opener ever! "Aint this smoking band stupid?" "yeah i know what you mean" "My names " x " by the way

funny because its true.

[gmku]

Originally Posted by nature scene

Hell, ban driving too.

There's a lot of people that don't do what I want them to be doing when I'm on the road. I'm putting myself at risk (and possibly others) every time i get into my car.

Well, that's kind of a false analogy now isn't it. Normal driving is fine. Bad driving is not. And so they do ban bad driving already. It's called reckless driving, and it's pretty illegal most places.

On the other hand, there's no good smoking. It's all negative for public health no matter where and when one smokes.

[gmku]

If people want to smoke, they should be required to smoke in a sealed hazard suit that contains all the smoke. They would then be required to properly dispose of suit in designated recepticles. Suits would be mandatory purchases at point of sale of cigarettes. Suits would cost 25 dollars each and be good for the use of three smoked cigarettes. If smoker tried to use suit on fourth cigarette, suit sends an electric shock to smoker, stunning only and not killing, but strong enough hopefully to deter smoker from using a used-up suit.

[gmku]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

if enough people got together and complained that vehicle emmissions and exhausts were harming them, were infringing on their "right" to live a healthy life, would there be a ban on cars?

Of course not. Another false analogy. (funny how the false ones proliferate on the side of smokers.) Instead there might be a ban on harmful emissions and increased emission standards for all vehicles, and maybe a bigger effort to develop cleaner fuels and better and more affordable hybrid cars--things long overdue anyway in this country.

[Pookie]

My input into the debate:

Dear smokers:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

[Pookie]

You're all weak-willed, wheezing, whinging whiners. Find some real issues to complain about, you morons.

Oh, and did I say:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

[Gulasch Noir]

I smoke and I wouldn't mind a ban.

States don't only exist to guarantee everyone's freedom, but also to prevent everyone from harm and to give protection to their inhabitants (also the US). Basic rights in its liberal occurrence (freedom from the state) were established in the 18 th century, but time moved on since then. While liberal basic rights are still in force, efforts nowadays are largely directed towards strengthen social, cultural and economic basic rights. I think you have to consider the involved interests and must not allow the freedom (in this case the freedom to smoke) a sacrosanct significance within the system of constitutional principles.

If there's freedom to smoke I demand a freedom to fart and a freedom to scratch my ball hair anytime I want to too. I think that's pretty comparable.

[Gulasch Noir]

... Apart from not having any health hazards for your human environment.

The building where I work has banned smoking everywhere indoors for 2 years, now. We were given those lamps that are meant to keep you warm outside on the balconies, and make the balcony itself look like a red light district. Those are gone too, if you want to light up you have to freeze your bollocks off. I don't mind too much.

[Tokolosh]

I think it's ridiculous. If we want to prevent health risks, why don't we start by bringing down the level of fossil fuel emissions.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by nature scene

You can't control your "property" like that now, because those property rights don't exist.

But here's what could happen if they did: If your neighbor burns coal and it harms you in whatever way, then you should bargain with him until you reach mutual agreement. The fact that you have a property right for clean air or whatever doesn't necessarily mean that you will stop his activity all together (although it might).

Ronald Coase showed us that what is important is that property rights are established, though it doesn't matter to whom - in the end bargaining will lead to a solution, and an economically efficient one at that. From a legal perspective though, it does matter who has the property rights. (If your coal-burning neighbor had the rights to pollute, then you would be the one who would have to offer something to make him stop.) Either way, there are no inherent rights, they have to be established by law.

I'm not for property rights because then we could enjoin everyone else from doing something, I'm for them because they create the foundation for mutual bargaining. A voluntary society is better than one that exists through coercion.

Our air is dirty precisely because no one owns it - it's called the tragedy of the commons. It happens to all commonly owned resources.

man, it's always a pleasure to read your answers to these questions. you're one of the few truly reasonable posters in a board where most people see discussions as a cock-slapping contest.

interesting points there, i'm not sure where i stand i all of this but i had never heard of ronald coase, so thanks for the new perspectives.