[evollove]

MF's son died and I found out about it here, actually. Can you imagine the reaction if Blue Ivy died? And how the hell do I even know her name? I'm not even a huge fan of either parent.

[noisereductions]

^right. Kanye, Bey, Jay, Kimmy K and Taylor. Those are famous people. People who don't even like them know all about them.

MF Doom is not famous. He's well known and celebrated within a certain group of music fans. But he's not famous.

[evollove]

Is datpiff really the best place to go for mixtapes? I'd like to listen to every brand new thing every day until something amazing comes out, just so I can say "Yeah, I was fucking with that from day one."

[noisereductions]

I don't think I've downloaded a mixtape in like 4 or 5 years now. I think most of the major legit tapes just end up on Spotify or whatever.

[evollove]

I don't know what "legit" means. Like, semi-official from someone I'd know?

I mean, wouldn't it have been cool to be one of the first to hear K Dot and say, "I think this kid's onto something?" (I have no idea if his very first mixtape was even a digital download. Just a made up example)

[Severian]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

^right. Kanye, Bey, Jay, Kimmy K and Taylor. Those are famous people. People who don't even like them know all about them.

MF Doom is not famous. He's well known and celebrated within a certain group of music fans. But he's not famous.

MF Doom is famous, dude. Pitchfork is the most read music “magazine” in he country, and they have videos about him, put his solo and group albums on their lists (to name a site where his lists have appeared), and they blow sunshine up his ass.

He’s not Kanye famous, but he’s famous.
MF Doom is *cult* famous, maybe, but famous nonetheless. His fans are RAVENOUS, and I’m pretty sure the mask is a known thing in music culture overall.

Shrug though

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

Is datpiff really the best place to go for mixtapes? I'd like to listen to every brand new thing every day until something amazing comes out, just so I can say "Yeah, I was fucking with that from day one."

It’s a good site because it’s legitimate. I love getting free music without pirating.
I don’t know that it’s the “best” because I’ve run into a couple things that shouldn’t be on there for free, so I don’t know what the oversight really is.

For example, Kanye’s (awesome) GOOD FRIDAYS singles are collected in an (awesome) single playlist there, but while the singles were free, Kanye did not make a mixtape. So that’s borderline piracy, if only in a technical way.

HotNewHipHop is Ok too.

[noisereductions]

Again we are saying the same thing. Cult famous and Kanye famous are two totally different things.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

(I didn't fuck with you in a mean way, just an inarticulate way perhaps.)

S’okay

We could talk about the Kanye stuff I don't care for, if that'll prove my sincerity. I don't think there's a single song on Yeezus that I care for.

...

WHAT.

Ok, that album takes some getting used to, but dude, it’s worth it. Honesty, I loved it from the first listen, but felt weird about it. It took me some time to have t really get into my bones.

Now, the second half of Yeezus is probably the Kanye I listen to most. More than anything else. From “Hold My Liquor” on. Just amazing. “Bound 2” has that corny chorus and it sounds so corny at first, but then it seeps into you. There’s a lot of sadness going on in that album, and I think it’s absoltely PEAK Kanye, right up there with MBDTF, the best TLOP moments, and Graduation.

“Guilt Trip,” man. “Blood on the Leaves!!” Fucking “send it up” ... AAAAH! Change your mind!!

Yeah, I've watched the "I told you" interview a few times. He's 100% right. "I sell drugs and pimp bitches." Cool. Here's fame and fortune. "I'm a god." Fuck off darkie.

Seriously, I wonder if anti-Kanye sentiment doesn't have a racist edge to it. Maybe not all the time, but I'm pretty sure it's there.

Oh it’s there.

America has a problem with ANY black persons gaining too much influence. It may be subconscious, but pitchfork impulse is to strike them down. Look at Obama. Or, y’know, MLK, Malcom X, etc. Racism is inextricably linked to anti-Kanye sentiments.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

Again we are saying the same thing. Cult famous and Kanye famous are two totally different things.

NO WE ARE ARGUING!!!

Lol

[Severian]

Really though, I think I struggle with who is and isn’t famous in hip-hop too.

Maybe because by the time Madvillainy came out, that was probably the poppiest album I bought that year. In the early-‘00s I was just scooping up Black Dice and Wolf Eyes and Tarantula Hawk records and looking for the next Sonic Youth. So my perspective is probably skewed.

Since we’re all Sonic Youth/indie/underground/whatever-the-fuck fans here — noisenicks and weirdos — I’m sure I’m not alone in this.

Like, it was WEIRD when I got so into Kanye because the last time I got THAT into someon THAT big was fucking Nirvana. Ever since then, I’ve been more open to more popular artists, and I think that’s a really good thing. But my whole perspective on what is and isn’t popular is probably a little jacked

I used to think Wu-Tang was the Beatles of hip-hop. Or ATCQ. But as “big” as either of those groups were, they were nothing like Kanye, Drake, Kendrick (circa 2017, Kendrick is unfathomably popular to me... so popular that people like guest just don’t listen to his music because they think it will be boring... how weird is that?), and I’m not sure when the era of pop-level hip-hop stars really started.

Don’t say 2pac or Biggie because they both had to die before their albums went diamond.

Maybe Eminem? Eminem and Jay-Z? Those two kind of kicked it into a new gear, making hip-hop something white girls wanted to listen to.

Anyway. Not sure what my point it, but I think if Drake as a failure and he’s huge. Just loathed by a lot of critics (and myself). I consider DRAM fleetingly, insignificantly popular, but how many SoundCloud followers does he have?

I don’t know man.

[evollove]

Originally Posted by Severian

DRAM

If it helps, I have no idea what this means.


I tuned out of mainstream pop culture in, like, 1996. Not saying that to be hip. Just happened. Went to a tiny private school that made it difficult, and once the cord was cut I never really plugged back in.

I remember being at some chick's place and she had a Denis Rodman book. I think he was naked on the cover or something. I was like, "Who's that crazy guy?" She didn't believe me. I told her I don't follow basketball. She said that didn't matter, and I was either lying or retarded.

But some rap cut through. Eminem certainly. Maybe mostly because I actually heard his music. Now it's your turn to not believe me, but until late last year, I never heard a Kanye song, at least not being aware of it. But I knew who he was.

I knew maybe three, four Jay-Z songs somehow. Maybe a 50 Cent or two. That might be it as far as rap goes.

The stuff is actually easy to avoid without trying. You do realize most people don't even have a music collection at all? Maybe one country compilation on cassette is some desk drawer and that's about it.

Where would most people hear, say, Kendrick's latest anyway? The drive to work is either talk radio or silence. Then work. Then drive home with talk or silence. Then sitcoms, or sports, or police dramas for TV, then bed.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

If it helps, I have no idea what this means.


I tuned out of mainstream pop culture in, like, 1996. Not saying that to be hip. Just happened. Went to a tiny private school that made it difficult, and once the cord was cut I never really plugged back in.

I remember being at some chick's place and she had a Denis Rodman book. I think he was naked on the cover or something. I was like, "Who's that crazy guy?" She didn't believe me. I told her I don't follow basketball. She said that didn't matter, and I was either lying or retarded.

But some rap cut through. Eminem certainly. Maybe mostly because I actually heard his music. Now it's your turn to not believe me, but until late last year, I never heard a Kanye song, at least not being aware of it. But I knew who he was.

I knew maybe three, four Jay-Z songs somehow. Maybe a 50 Cent or two. That might be it as far as rap goes.

The stuff is actually easy to avoid without trying. You do realize most people don't even have a music collection at all? Maybe one country compilation on cassette is some desk drawer and that's about it.

Where would most people hear, say, Kendrick's latest anyway? The drive to work is either talk radio or silence. Then work. Then drive home with talk or silence. Then sitcoms, or sports, or police dramas for TV, then bed.

Drive to work, work, driving around to various assignments, and the drive home from work is where I do like 90% of my listening, so we have different habits.

[evollove]

Oh, me too.

I meant other people. I think most people prefer talk; some even drive in silence. (!!!) I just think for the vast majority of Americans, there really isn't a space to be exposed to new music unless one makes a slight effort, and "fame" just means a name pierces through somehow, usually for a non-music related stunt like interrupting a VMA speech.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

Oh, me too.

I meant other people. I think most people prefer talk; some even drive in silence. (!!!) I just think for the vast majority of Americans, there really isn't a space to be exposed to new music unless one makes a slight effort, and "fame" just means a name pierces through somehow, usually for a non-music related stunt like interrupting a VMA speech.

Yeah.

Thing is, everybody likes music. Everyone. But not everyone, like, *needs* music. I can’t fucking imagine my life without the definitive songs and artists and albums, and I constantly seek out new ones. But I’m a neurotic, borderline obsessive-compulsive feelings hound. I think a lot of people just listen to what’s convenient to listen to, and streaming makes that an even more effortless, thoughtless process.

More people probably know Kanye by name and action than by his music, if we’re being honest.

More people know Kurt Cobain as the poor man who took his life blah blah than know “Scentless Apprentice,” that’s for goddamn sure.

[noisereductions]

yeah dude that's what I was getting at. I'm not even talking about "the music," but "the person" or the "the idea of the person." That's FAMOUS. Kurt is famous.

If I showed my mom a picture of Kanye and said "who's this?" she'd either say Kanye West, or Kim K's husband. She prob wouldn't be able to name a song. But she's know who he IS.

If I showed my mom a pic of MF Doom in his mask, she'd prob guess he was from The Avengers movies or something.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

yeah dude that's what I was getting at. I'm not even talking about "the music," but "the person" or the "the idea of the person." That's FAMOUS. Kurt is famous.

If I showed my mom a picture of Kanye and said "who's this?" she'd either say Kanye West, or Kim K's husband. She prob wouldn't be able to name a song. But she's know who he IS.

If I showed my mom a pic of MF Doom in his mask, she'd prob guess he was from The Avengers movies or something.

Lol.

Your mom would probably be able to name a song. My mom can. Being an aging liberal academic, she at least hears *about* things like the “Diamonds from SL” remix tackling the diamond trade, or “Blood on the Leaves” audaciously using “Strange Fruit” as a sample.

Also, one year I sent her “Hey Mama” as part of a Mother’s Day gift. Lol.

[Rob Instigator]

El Guapo was IN-famous

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by Severian

Lol.

Your mom would probably be able to name a song. My mom can. Being an aging liberal academic, she at least hears *about* things like the “Diamonds from SL” remix tackling the diamond trade, or “Blood on the Leaves” audaciously using “Strange Fruit” as a sample.

Also, one year I sent her “Hey Mama” as part of a Mother’s Day gift. Lol.

I will bet good money that my mom could not name a song. I'll ask her next time I see her.

[Rob Instigator]

the only Kanye song most white folks over 40 know is the golddigger track