[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

Any new Radiohead release makes me go a bit Pseudo-Freud, wondering if listening to it will send me digging into the past for something buried from when i was 13 and they were the only thing that kept me going, and whether it can explain things that have gone on since. So every time they release something now im in my 20s, im honestly a little afraid of what sitting down and listening to it will do to me.

So on Wednesday im gonna be 26, 13 years since i first listened to Radiohead, which was 13 years from my birth. Lucky me.

that is what music does for all of us. however, it also gives you a new vehicle to define and understand how you have grown and evolved as a person. good music changes with you, because the artists are being sincere and reflecting their own individual growths as people, not just blindingly abstract music. Artists who chase that same sound over and over again are plastic. This is what Chino from deftones was saying about Jon Davis from koRn, like "dude, are you still writing songs about being pissed off in high school? Its not like we live with our parents anymore.." The substance and feel/vibe of music should reflect the flux of life, the growth and change as we all become new and growing people in our lives, in our families, in our jobs, in our respective places in the world. I've said it before, music should literally be the soundtrack to the movie of our lives, it should aptly reflect these changes and give form and meaning to them

This has been my beef over the years with sonic youth fans, a lot of y'all want SY to stay plastic int he Daydream Nation era, playing the exact same sounding shit across three decades, but that is a LOOOONG time for people (ie, the band) to grow and experience changes, the music they make should always reflect these changes to be sincere, and further we are not static fans, be we are also growing older and evolving with the band.

music needs to stay relevant with who we all become as people, as life is not static and neither are our personalities, we are always a becoming..

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

that is what music does for all of us. however, it also gives you a new vehicle to define and understand how you have grown and evolved as a person. good music changes with you, because the artists are being sincere and reflecting their own individual growths as people, not just blindingly abstract music. Artists who chase that same sound over and over again are plastic. This is what Chino from deftones was saying about Jon Davis from koRn, like "dude, are you still writing songs about being pissed off in high school? Its not like we live with our parents anymore.."

music needs to stay relevant with who we all become as people, as life is not static and neither are our personalities, we are always a becoming..

I reckon this has something to do with not knowing exactly what songs or music are about, it allows you to transpose your own feelings onto the sound you hear and remember, which is the kind of music i liked exclusively when i was a teenager, and to a large extent i still do (I dont mind an obvious or corny lyric as much now). And when youre a teenager that assosciation between sound and memory is stronger and more visceral.

I liked Radiohead then because it gave me my own little world, where i didnt understand what any of it was about, but i knew that deep down it was about how i was feeling, and i didnt think anyone around me was feeling the same. Thats why (i think anyway) as you grow older and understand yourself more you feel the need to explore things you dont understand to find that another little world.

So in that sense, your man Chino from the Deftones had it right, which is why the Deftones are a good band and Korn are shit

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

I liked Radiohead then because it gave me my own little world, where i didnt understand what any of it was about, but i knew that deep down it was about how i was feeling, and i didnt think anyone around me was feeling the same. Thats why (i think anyway) as you grow older and understand yourself more you feel the need to explore things you dont understand to find that another little world.

music, in the terms of Joseph Campbell, is like a kind of liturgy for our own personal lives, it is a living mantra that breathes introvertive self-reflection and at the same time a frame-work to make sense of the world. Life is a mystery, and good music preserves that mysterious access, which is meant to be experienced far more than understood. To think you understand life is to make it boring and lifeless, where as to live in the realm of inspiration and ever-constant mystery is to truly live.. as them say "life is for man to live, so let man live life.."

So in that sense, your man Chino from the Deftones had it right, which is why the Deftones are a good band and Korn are shit

exactly, me and the deftones have grown up so much together, shit their last album was about Chi in that coma, and it came out when I was in the hospital nursing my dying and dearly close grandfather (who in fact raised me as a son) in his coma, those lyrics and vibe were potently close and hard-hitting, I still get sentimental about listening to them.. and it was not just the words to the lyrics, it was the entire tone and feeling of the music that carried these feelings..

deftones evolved with me from high school shit (adrenaline llyrics) through the mysteries of coping with love and drugs on the real world (around the fur) to navigating love and responsibility in the real world (white pony) to having mini-mid-life crises but staying grounded (self-titled) to accepting being an adult and thriving with it (Saturday Night Wrist) to coping with the realer losses and struggles of real life family drama that eclipses the juvenille and selfish experiences of the highschool vibe ( Diamond Eyes) these albums are evolving over 16 plus years, just as we all are..

American Beauty was the same thing for the Dead, as the were burying their relatives which marks a potent sign post in the transitions of our lives from youth to adulthood to old age to the grave and starting again.. every dying we feed the flame

radiohead has also done this for me, but in less obvious and more sonically surreal ways..
so have sonic youth, where as other bands stay the same forever..

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

exactly, me and the deftones have grown up so much together, shit their last album was about Chi in that coma, and it came out when I was in the hospital nursing my dying and dearly close grandfather (who in fact raised me as a son) in his coma, those lyrics and vibe were potently close and hard-hitting, I still get sentimental about listening to them.. and it was not just the words to the lyrics, it was the entire tone and feeling of the music that carried these feelings..

deftones evolved with me from high school shit (adrenaline llyrics) through the mysteries of coping with love and drugs on the real world (around the fur) to navigating love and responsibility in the real world (white pony) to having mini-mid-life crises but staying grounded (self-titled) to accepting being an adult and thriving with it (Saturday Night Wrist) to coping with the realer losses and struggles of real life family drama that eclipses the juvenille and selfish experiences of the highschool vibe ( Diamond Eyes) these albums are evolving over 16 plus years, just as we all are..

American Beauty was the same thing for the Dead, as the were burying their relatives which marks a potent sign post in the transitions of our lives from youth to adulthood to old age to the grave and starting again.. every dying we feed the flame

Not wanting to get too tangential, but the way you respond to art in general depends on what time in your own personal psyche you encounter these big events. I remember when i first had my heart properly broken i got into painters like Francis Bacon, Goya etc. when i was about as Art-literate (capital A) as David Brent. There is always a comfort you go back to, but sometimes theres a fear of the melancholy that comes from remembering past times that drives you to find a new canvas to wrap yourself in.
Radiohead did that for me once upon a time, when listening to RnB made me feel like i was trapped and never going to get out. Maybe i feel a bit trapped now, i dunno. Ask a Psychology Graduate

[knox]

Ikara cult, happy future birthday!

[krastian]

Originally Posted by knox

Bringing back rock and guitars? Really?

Yes, at least a little. I think if they went back to their roots a bit and had some more guitar driven songs would be a positive thing that would give them a fresher energy.


The main thing I was trying to say is that the rest of the band just seems to be m.i.a....at least in that one song. Then again, I still haven't heard the new album, so it's hard to say.

Are they only putting this out on mp3 or something??

[fishmonkey]

i didnt like In Rainbows at all really, i was like "ok you pay what u want for the album.." and i downloaded it for freeeeee!! i had the last laugh and i chuckled all the way to the lab.... only to find the joke was on me cuz... i didnt like it..

[atsonicpark]

In Rainbows was obviously rushed, and I think even the band knew that it was so bad they couldn't consciously expect anyone to pay money for it. This album, while technically being a lot worse, at least it short and can be treated as a cold ambient record, since there's not a lot of cheesy rock riffs, like In Rainbows had in a few songs (is it just me or is the "Bodysnatchers" riff like a really bad Queens of the Stone Age riff?).

[atsonicpark]

In 2009, commenting on the nature of future Radiohead releases, Thom Yorke stated that: "None of us want to go into that creative hoo-ha of a long-play record again. Not straight off. I mean, it's just become a real drag. It worked with In Rainbows because we had a real fixed idea about where we were going. But we've all said that we can’t possibly dive into that again. It’ll kill us."

Hmm. It's really that difficult for 5 talented people to come up with an interesting 40 minutes of music every 3-4 years? Wow.
I mean this album is boring as hell and only 37 minutes!

[knox]

I was actually saying this morning that I generally feel albums are too long. Why feel the obligation of coming up with 40 minutes of music? Maybe you're saying what you wanna say in 25. I love shorter albums because they are straight to the point, concise, generally don't get lost in terms of concept and kind of leave you wanting more. Maybe the industry model is changing in that sense too, I see nothing wrong with it. If they're saying all they wanna say at that moment in 30 mins what's the problem? Of all things, are we gonna start complaining about how long albums last now?

[Derek]

I somewhat agree with you knox. An hour of the same shit (unless you're amazingly diverse) is oversaturation and completely unnecessary. I find myself relistening to shorter albums a lot more than some fuck off 75 minute drone epic (and yeah I've made a 75 minute album but it was necessary to what I was trying to express at that point). I'd rather listen to the 25 minute Earl Sweatshirt album or a short punk album than a 40 minute Sunn O))) song.

[atsonicpark]

Well, yeah, I've always thought ep's were ALWAYS better than any bands full lengths, for example. A good 30 minute album kills a double disc of filler nad bullshit. Personally, I would never make a super long album or movie or do a long live performance, as long as I have a say over it (obviously I've played in bands where I had no control over an album coming out that was over an hour). Movies are definitely always too long. I really can't think of any movie in the history of films that I wish was longer, but I think about 90% of films should be shorter. There's really no reason for any movie to be longer than 70 minutes, the same way that there's not much of a reason for an album to be longer than 40 minutes usually.

Leave people wanting more, not less.

...Still, 3 years for a boring 37 minute album seems a bit laughable. I'm not complaining about the length of their album (actually, on the contrary, the short length is why I reccomend it over In Rainbows -- In Rainbows is so long that it's nearly impossible to listen to in one sitting). Rather, I posted that quote because it seems to suggest to me that their hearts are not in it anymore (there are other quotes saying they don't want to go back to the Kid A sound because it was "Hell", and stuff like that; I think it's not so much the sound of Kid A, but the thought of writing music without boundaries, with them doing something new. Whatever criticism or praise goes for the new album, no one is going to argue that the sound is particularly new or inventive for Radiohead, it actually seems like a huge step back from some of their more intricate songs, like from THIEF era...). This is a band who used to release material all the time, whose b-sides were often better than their albums. I see them calling it quits in the next few years.

It's no shock, and NO SURPRISE. It's interesting though.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Derek

I somewhat agree with you knox. An hour of the same shit (unless you're amazingly diverse) is oversaturation and completely unnecessary. I find myself relistening to shorter albums a lot more than some fuck off 75 minute drone epic (and yeah I've made a 75 minute album but it was necessary to what I was trying to express at that point). I'd rather listen to the 25 minute Earl Sweatshirt album or a short punk album than a 40 minute Sunn O))) song.

There's a time and place for a short punk album or 75 minutes of drone. They're both equally valid and I'd be willing to listen to both, depending on my mood. I was just surprised because I think it was the first time I've ever seen anyone complain about the lenght of an album... Actually, no I've had people complaining to me that my songs are too short lol.

When you say 3 years to come up with this, it's like you're assuming they spent 3 years in the studio, and not like, having a life, taking care of their children and doing other things. Why does the album sound like this? Because they felt like it. No one can be new and inventive all the time, and if it didn't sound like Radiohead people would be complaining too. Although there are new and inventive things there, they're just more subtle.

How much time and effort was spent in making something is one of the most irrelevant aspects to discuss. The results are what matter, maybe you like it, maybe you don't, maybe it was recorded in one day or ten years, it doesn't matter to me.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by knox

I was actually saying this morning that I generally feel albums are too long. Why feel the obligation of coming up with 40 minutes of music? Maybe you're saying what you wanna say in 25. I love shorter albums because they are straight to the point, concise, generally don't get lost in terms of concept and kind of leave you wanting more. Maybe the industry model is changing in that sense too, I see nothing wrong with it. If they're saying all they wanna say at that moment in 30 mins what's the problem? Of all things, are we gonna start complaining about how long albums last now?

as much as I live on 35 minute versions of Fire on the Mountain ( and it seems sometimes I am the only one who can enjoy such long tunes) I also thoroughly enjoy smaller duration LPs such as those from good riotgrrl bands or other indy records. Also crust/chaos punk albums.. Many good roots reggae LPs are also 35-40 minutes, but I love the perfect half hour album, it has the perfect tempo to get you fully into the experience but is brief enough to keep your attention through out the duration. You don't cut and paste and pick and chose selections from these kinds of albums, you listen to them straight through from beginning to end, without stopping, often without doing anything else even but listeniing..

perfect music comes in half hour packages, though again, I too can meditate on half hour guitar solos too

[knox]

half hour solos make me meditate about suicide

[fishmonkey]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

(is it just me or is the "Bodysnatchers" riff like a really bad Queens of the Stone Age riff?).

yeah it is actually! good observation!

good observation of the ears i mean ..

[Genteel Death]

You're so uncool. Fuck you.

[Stephen Malkmus]

i dig it. i dig in rainbows and most of their records. theres some beautiful melodies in the new album too.. like the second whine in 'feral' which, to me, makes the whole album worth it.. that song codex is beautiful, too

theres been a lot of talk about radiohead and i sure do not agree w these people who claim theyre one of the most innovative and boundarie-breaking bands, but theyre ok and write good melodies.. none of their albums is really boring to me

ima dissapointed because theres only 8 songs and some of them were played live before.. but -fair enough i guess

that song 'twisted words' on the other hand, was completely genious.. i miss that sort of HTTT dark fucked up feeling...

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

the problem with radiohead records lately is that they do not live up to their own kinetic energy and potential, and further there is way to much hype which pollutes the authenticity of simply enjoying the record, all pretense aside. Radiohead has evolved into something like an ideology, which like all ideology corrupts the vantage point of the reality clouding the perception and distorting the image.

[Pelle]

Listened to it today a few times...it's not bad but I was dissapointed.

I used to love radiohead a few years ago and I think that they should have real drums like they used to and not just electronic stuff. That's what made this album not so attractive in my ears, even though it was really great!