[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Well on that level there's really no significant differences between them and Bayer Leverkusen, so why the focus of hatred towards RB Leipzig? I'd say rival fans' real concern is that Red Bull have shown before (in Formula 1) that they're not just able to spend the kinds of money it takes to really upset the status quo, but willing. The same happened in the Prem when Abramovich took over Chelsea. They were the most hated club in the country but ultimately more because of the threat that take-over posed to the traditional order of things (and Mourinho). If Leipzig get into the CL and really start to make waves I think it's only a matter of time before rival fans start to question their own set-up to ensure their club remains competitive. The only club in Germany that seems able to keep the system as-is and continue to thrive long term is Bayern.

you're conflating 2 separate issues though

one is the german 50+1 member ownership rule

the other is the UEFA financial fair play stuff

what you're talking about changing the landscape of sports (chelsea, formula 1) is big money injections from businesses and investors. as it applies to german football that's covered the UEFA rules and it's not just a german issue. applies also to the prem, la liga, serie a, etc.

the german thing about 50+1 member ownership is different though. these are actual sports clubs, with recreational facilities, multisports teams, and people who go there to practice them--not just providers of spectacle.

e.g, bayer clubs: https://www.bayer.com/en/clubs-sport...bby-bayer.aspx

while wolfsburg or leverkusen have been derided for their close business ties, both are clubs that were founded by the factory workers a long time ago. this is why leverkusen can use the name "bayer" without running afoul of regulations.

the issue with RB as far as i can tell has to do with the purpose of the "club" is not to serve its members but to promote a brand. so it has limited membership and only in the face of external pressure has relented to add members which aren't controlled by the red bull company. so it's effectively a branch of the business, not just related to/founded by/any of that. and they do only the minimum required to keep within the rules--basically, exploiting loopholes.

but again, this is independent of UEFA financial regulations that oversee big money injections. this is about team ownership per german rules, which don't apply to, say, serie A, where clubs like ac. milan can be bought and sold by investors from berlusconi to chinese conglomerates, but still are subject to UEFA rules.

[pepper_green]

...

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

you're conflating 2 separate issues though

one is the german 50+1 member ownership rule

the other is the UEFA financial fair play stuff

what you're talking about changing the landscape of sports (chelsea, formula 1) is big money injections from businesses and investors. as it applies to german football that's covered the UEFA rules and it's not just a german issue. applies also to the prem, la liga, serie a, etc.

the german thing about 50+1 member ownership is different though. these are actual sports clubs, with recreational facilities, multisports teams, and people who go there to practice them--not just providers of spectacle.

e.g, bayer clubs: https://www.bayer.com/en/clubs-sport...bby-bayer.aspx

while wolfsburg or leverkusen have been derided for their close business ties, both are clubs that were founded by the factory workers a long time ago. this is why leverkusen can use the name "bayer" without running afoul of regulations.

the issue with RB as far as i can tell has to do with the purpose of the "club" is not to serve its members but to promote a brand. so it has limited membership and only in the face of external pressure has relented to add members which aren't controlled by the red bull company. so it's effectively a branch of the business, not just related to/founded by/any of that. and they do only the minimum required to keep within the rules--basically, exploiting loopholes.

but again, this is independent of UEFA financial regulations that oversee big money injections. this is about team ownership per german rules, which don't apply to, say, serie A, where clubs like ac. milan can be bought and sold by investors from berlusconi to chinese conglomerates, but still are subject to UEFA rules.

RB are doing something different and it evidently isn't illegal. If whatever they're doing becomes successful, I can see other teams trying to mimic them. But admittedly I am basing that on the far less hostile reaction to corporate ownership amongst fans here. Not that there's a team in the Prem that functions quite like RB but he culture around the Prem is far more cynical than may be the case in Germany. I'd say most fans here would embrace almost anything if they believed it'd bring real success.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

RB are doing something different and it evidently isn't illegal. If whatever they're doing becomes successful, I can see other teams trying to mimic them. But admittedly I am basing that on the far less hostile reaction to corporate ownership amongst fans here. Not that there's a team in the Prem that functions quite like RB but he culture around the Prem is far more cynical than may be the case in Germany. I'd say most fans here would embrace almost anything if they believed it'd bring real success.

yeah it's not illegal but i couldn't tell you what part is it. evidently i only have superficial knowledge of the issue.

i can see a team selling 49% of their soul to a sponsor though. i mean, dortmund's shares are traded in the frankfurt stock market... but they don't earn much.

the issue is though, teams have to show a profit & be financially sustainable, per UEFA rules, yes? they can't be a money pit. this is as far as i understand why investors don't/can't put more money into them, and if/when they do, but lose money, the regulators come crawling.

i think RB picked a team that was low enough to not be covered by the regulations... but now they are on the top leagues and thus covered.

anyway i really couldn't tell you what's the revenue model for that club. but if RB starts pumping euros into a financial zombie, or the "club" becomes overly dependent on that one sponsor, they may find themselves scrutinized by UEFA... but again i don't know how that works. that's the whole UEFA though.

the only steadily profitable club... on the planet, maybe, is bayern munich. they've now surpassed real madrid in net worth/equity/whatever you call that. oh yeah. zero debt. proper cash cow. but it's a club with over 1/4 million members... they had enough money to rescue dortmund actually like a decade ago.

--

whoa, CL games tomorrow! PSG/barça, benfica/dortmund

i'll watch benfica/dortmund cuz yeah. will miss out on the megastars.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

the issue is though, teams have to show a profit & be financially sustainable, per UEFA rules, yes? they can't be a money pit. this is as far as i understand why investors don't/can't put more money into them, and if/when they do, but lose money, the regulators come crawling.

That's true but, to be fair, the UEFA regulations aren't much of an obstacle. Teams work around them all the time. If they stood for anything they'd have never allowed Man U to get into so much debt, but their owners just did some clever accounting and they're fine - see also PSG's infamous 'misc. income' column.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

whoa, CL games tomorrow! PSG/barça, benfica/dortmund

i'll watch benfica/dortmund cuz yeah. will miss out on the megastars.

Really looking forward to Bayern v Arsenal

[!@#$%!]

i just googled psg miscellaneous income and i'm having a good laugh with headlines alone

bayern/arsenal is wednesday and that i don't plan to miss

maybe i'll catch psg-barça on replay if the internet permits

[demonrail666]

UEFA responsible for regulating dodgy finances?

 

 

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

UEFA responsible for regulating dodgy finances?

 

 

ha ha ha ha those gifs

yeah. i don't understand what uefa can/can't do in that front. have they ever suspended/disqualified any team from their competitions? ha ha ha

i'd better go do some work right now cuz the game is gonna be smack in the middle of my workday ha ha ha

[demonrail666]

They've banned teams from buying plyers during a transfer window but the teams usually work around it. Other than that it's fines, which to the teams affected is little more than a light tap on the wrist.

Personally, while it's not something I advocate in normal society, I think sport should be as close to a free market as possible.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Personally, while it's not something I advocate in normal society, I think sport should be as close to a free market as possible.

i'm for a free market in general, but the challenge there is preventing the formation of cartels and monopolies.

e.g., keeping chelsea from owning every player on the planet. ha ha ha ha. or the emirates from owning every team!

[!@#$%!]

looks like i'm gonna be on the PSG/barca game first, after all

anyone else on it?

--

whoa, PSG! and draxler, wolfsburg misses you ha ha ha

damn... really good game so far

[!@#$%!]

ho. lee. shit.

[!@#$%!]

holy shit, dortmund!

benfica beat them 1-0 today after dortmund completely dominated the first half and missed like a trillion chances to score. benfica also played the offside very well though.

anyway some time early in the 2nd half benfica scores in a header from a corner and adios.

soon after that my transmission stopped. really. i couldn't load the fucking stream. it's like the gods didn't want me to witness.

count orlok must have gone bananas by the game's end with frustration.

one doesn't win games with "deserves"

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

the challenge there is preventing the formation of cartels and monopolies.

Yeah, that would be one of my only issues. No person or company should be able to own or have a share in more than one club. Not sure how easy that'd be to regulate though.

[_slavo_]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

looks like i'm gonna be on the PSG/barca game first, after all

anyone else on it?

--

whoa, PSG! and draxler, wolfsburg misses you ha ha ha

damn... really good game so far

Barca got literally deconstructed yesterday. It felt painful to watch that game and be a Barca fan. I haven't see Messi play so badly ever yet.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by _slavo_

Barca got literally deconstructed yesterday. It felt painful to watch that game and be a Barca fan. I haven't see Messi play so badly ever yet.

maybe with argentina? he's had some invisible games with them.

but speaking of argentina-- di maria! there was also a uruguayan contest there, & cavani won it gloriously.

this psg i had not seen in action before. the new sevilla coach looks like he knows how to win. and this team is a strong candidate to win it all. fantastic performance yesterday.

anyway, i share your pain a bit. as a dortmund fan, i'm glad i actually got interrupted from seeing aubameyang's missed penalty. he missed a lot of goals yesterday!

and not too confident about today's bayern/arsenal either. don't know what to expect. ancelotti's squad hasn't really been firing on all cilinders and mueller is going through a season-long slump. am i glad pep is gone? yes. do i like what ancelotti is doing? er... let me get back to you about that later.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Yeah, that would be one of my only issues. No person or company should be able to own or have a share in more than one club. Not sure how easy that'd be to regulate though.

according to libertarian object of worship murray rothbard, monopolies & cartels are not easily maintained without government support of said entities. i'm not sure i believe him but he's got a video lecture out there where he tries to make that case.

[_slavo_]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

maybe with argentina? he's had some invisible games with them.

but speaking of argentina-- di maria! there was also a uruguayan contest there, & cavani won it gloriously.

this psg i had not seen in action before. the new sevilla coach looks like he knows how to win. and this team is a strong candidate to win it all. fantastic performance yesterday.

PSG played like from a different world. flawless performance. I think the coach finally found the right chemistry in this rich-as-fuck squadra. plus, Draxler is a beast.

[Bertrand]

It looked a bit like the Netherlands tearing apart Spain.
PSG are not leading the French league, which is quite new, and coach Unai E. has been under pressure ever since.
This game yesterday was fantastic, the goals beautifully built and taken.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by _slavo_

PSG played like from a different world. flawless performance. I think the coach finally found the right chemistry in this rich-as-fuck squadra. plus, Draxler is a beast.

draxler was great at schalke but too much for the team and then unhappy at
wolfsburg. great to see him get a chance at fully developing his talent.

and the new coach is the one that won all those europa cups with sevilla so he must know a thing or two

Originally Posted by Bertrand

It looked a bit like the Netherlands tearing apart Spain.
PSG are not leading the French league, which is quite new, and coach Unai E. has been under pressure ever since.
This game yesterday was fantastic, the goals beautifully built and taken.

i felt like i was witnessing history-- which, yeah, i was.

[!@#$%!]

there are yellow shirts everywhere

OH ROBBENNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ha ha hahah a YEAH