Is Trump really a serious contender for the Republican nomination? - Page 334

!@#$%! · 05.11.2019, 08:41 PM

again, not for functional illiterates

—

I led a platoon in Iraq. Trump is wrong to pardon war criminals.
Soldiers pay attention to example. Murderous leaders command murderous units.

By Waitman Wade Beorn
Waitman Wade Beorn, a combat veteran of Iraq, is a Holocaust and genocide studies historian, a lecturer at the University of Virginia, and the author of “Marching Into Darkness: The Wehrmacht and the Holocaust in Belarus.” He is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point.

May 9

In early 2003, as a cavalry officer, I stood in front of my scout platoon at dusk after a long day preparing to deploy to Iraq. I spoke with them about the law of war and how they should treat civilians when we got into theater. It wasn’t a long conversation, but I felt that giving clear guidance about what was acceptable — and not acceptable — was important. They should treat the civilians as they would neighbors, I told them. Soldiers take most seriously the things their leadership makes most serious.

On Monday, President Trump pardoned the convicted war criminal Michael Behenna, who had murdered Ali Mansur, an unarmed, naked Iraqi, by shooting him in the head and chest. Making a specious claim of self-defense, Behenna argued that Mansur threw a piece of concrete at him and “ stood up like he’s coming at me.” And so he neutralized this threat, a naked man, already released by the Army. Behenna was supposed to be returning Mansur home to his village. A military court convicted Behenna of unpremeditated murder. American soldiers testified against him. The military court of appeals and a review panel upheld that conviction, though he was paroled early, in 2014.

Even before pardoning Behenna, Trump demonstrated a disturbing flippancy toward war crimes. He has repeatedly expressed support for former Navy SEAL Edward Gallagher, another alleged war criminal. Gallagher’s own men told investigators that he had, according to the New York Times, “shot a girl in a flower-print hijab who was walking with other girls on the riverbank.” In 2017, Gallagher walked up to a 15-year-old prisoner of war and “stabbed the wounded teenager several times in the neck and once in the chest with his hunting knife, killing him.” He then texted images of his “kill” to friends. Even in the tightknit Special Operations community, fellow SEALs were horrified and repeatedly reported Gallagher’s behavior until charges were brought. He faces court-martial at the end of the month. Trump tweeted that Gallagher would be given better conditions in confinement “in honor of his past service,” an honor many would say he threw away long ago.

Trump has also publicly supported Maj. Matt Golsteyn, who is charged with premeditated murder in the shooting of an unarmed man and the burning of his body in Afghanistan. “I will be reviewing the case of a ‘U.S. Military hero,’ ” the president tweeted.

In at least three instances, then, our commander in chief appears to have preferred to overlook serious war crimes in favor of a warped notion of patriotism and heroism. Trump subscribes to a “bad things happen in war” mentality — odd for a man who actively avoided military service.

This attitude is incredibly dangerous. It doesn’t just undermine the enforcement of military justice; it also sends a message to our armed forces about just what kind of conduct the United States takes seriously.

In my book “Marching Into Darkness,” I wrote about the German army’s participation in the Holocaust at the small-unit level. One conclusion was that, even given the premeditated, racist and highly ideologized environment of the Wehrmacht, the culture of each unit and the institutional leadership most directly influenced whether war crimes were committed. Murderous leaders led murderous units, I found.

Fortunately, the U.S. military does not exist in this kind of ethical quagmire. Compared with our opponents in the modern age, we have taken much more care to prosecute warfare in accordance with the laws of war. We have systems of military education that highlight our values and the law of armed conflict. And we have a military justice system that, while not perfect, prosecutes and condemns those service members who commit atrocities. In short, we have a foundation of military ethics that our combat leaders can stand on.

But what happens when that ethical foundation erodes or crumbles? There are things we can learn from the German military and the Holocaust that are relevant today — without arguing that we are Nazis. One lesson is the influence of an institution’s culture on criminal behavior during wartime. The German state intentionally created such a culture (another important distinction from the current situation). Before a German soldier set foot in the Soviet Union, he received several unmistakable clues about what behavior would be acceptable. The Commissar Order explicitly called for the summary execution of all Red Army political officers, an act that violated all laws of war, including those that Germany was party to. Also, the guidelines for German troops, disseminated the day before the invasion, stated that “this war demands ruthless and aggressive action against Bolshevik agitators, snipers, saboteurs, and Jews and tireless elimination of any active or passive resistance.” “Passive resistance” would be interpreted liberally. Last, and most striking in light of Trump’s pardon of Behenna, was the Jurisdiction Order. Issued in May 1941 directly by Adolf Hitler, it informed troops that “for offenses committed by members of the Wehrmacht and its employees against enemy civilians, prosecution is not compulsory, not even if the offense is at the same time a military crime or violation.” Soldiers were literally told that they would not be tried for behavior that would be a crime anywhere else in Europe.

The Wehrmacht proceeded to commit some of the worst atrocities in the history of modern warfare on a scale that obviously dwarfs anything we have seen in Iraq or Afghanistan. But the underlying lessons remain valid. Murderous leaders led murderous units. Soldiers took their cues from the guidance they were given and the examples they were shown. They were often more likely to commit war crimes because of their commanders’ signaling than because of Nazi ideology. (In my research on the Wehrmacht, I also discovered the corollary to be true: Leaders opposed to criminality led units that did not commit crimes.)

When Trump champions war criminals as brave patriots who are simply victims of political correctness, he seems to push for a climate that condones unethical and criminal behavior. He appears to write off war crimes as the cost of doing business. If this is the example our military is given, we should not be surprised to see more Behennas and Gallaghers. Referring to the infamous Army “kill team ” in Afghanistan in 2009-2010, a senior military official noted the importance of the brigade commander’s aggressive guidance, which rejected any attempt to “win hearts and minds.” The official observed that “clearly, the guys who were pulling the trigger are the proximate cause of the crime, but the culture itself is the enabler.”

No reasonable person would claim that Trump is Hitler or that the U.S. military is the German army in World War II. Cases like those stand out as so horrific precisely because the American military has the strong ethical foundation the Wehrmacht lacked and generally does not commit war crimes. But the dynamics of units in combat at ground level can be strikingly similar across time and space, and so we ignore historical lessons at our peril. Perhaps that’s why one case study from my research on the German army and the Holocaust forms the foundation of a training module for the U.S. military in conjunction with the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum and West Point. It is used by ROTC programs and military units across the country.

Leaders are constantly making policy, by what they do — and by what they don’t do. Trump’s posture endangers our deployed men and women by betraying the trust of host nations that we will prosecute those rare individuals who commit crimes against their people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...013_story.html

!@#$%! · 05.13.2019, 07:19 AM

lmao. that article wasn’t about who can vote. it’s about leadership.

!@#$%! · 05.13.2019, 08:20 AM

please

your rube goldberg justifications are the derangement

!@#$%! · 05.13.2019, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Schunk

I am not justifying anything. I am, as I've long said I am, quite disturbed by the Trump administration''s warlike tendencies, as well as his campaign-era endorsement of war crimes. I'm also pointing out Beorn's concentration on Trump's actions to date, at the expense of any serious discussion of Trump's predecessors' actions in regard to the subject at hand.

“i am quite disturbed but what about irrelevant whataboutisms”

ilduclo · 05.17.2019, 04:11 PM

Repub FCC Commissioner Michael O'Reilly spoke to an audience of debt collectors at ACA International. Debt collectors are one of the country's most zealous users of robocalls, a tool they deploy to hound people in debt.

"Repeat after me," O'Reilly said, "'Robocall is not a bad word."

tw2113 · 05.18.2019, 07:41 PM

They hound me about student loan debt I don't have

ilduclo · 05.19.2019, 08:19 AM

Living expenses for poor students now being taxed at 37%, a feature of the new Repulsian tax plan. Thanks, Trimp and Yertle!

ilduclo · 05.21.2019, 12:04 PM

Seekyoulow (trumps tiny attorney) is appealing the release of his financial records to the judge denied a Senate hearing for SCOTUS appointment, Merrick Garland....

:lol:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donal... hpmg00000067

In other Seekyoulow news, the little guy suborned perjury

just how tiny is that little fellow? He is surprisingly buttery, though.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/20/polit...sed/index.html

!@#$%! · 05.21.2019, 03:55 PM

democrats’ latest primary polls

uncle joe way ahead of grandpa bear(nie)

beto in the land of the forgotten

biden-warren ticket?
biden-harris?

tw2113 · 05.21.2019, 08:36 PM

I think Biden is way up there more just from familiarity over 8 years as VP

!@#$%! · 05.21.2019, 08:43 PM

yeah but 20pts is 20pts...

tw2113 · 05.21.2019, 09:13 PM

I'm already over the election cycle and we're literally 18 months away. It's going to be a long time.

!@#$%! · 05.21.2019, 09:38 PM

lmao

i know what you mean

but here’s to booting that ugly orange mutha

if we do, it will all have been worth it

if we don’t, then, okay, i’ll be the first to punch the wall

tw2113 · 05.21.2019, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

lmao

i know what you mean

but here’s to booting that ugly orange mutha

if we do, it will all have been worth it

if we don’t, then, okay, i’ll be the first to punch the wall

we need to approve the wall being built first.

!@#$%! · 05.22.2019, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw2113

we need to approve the wall being built first.

hahahaha

i forgot about that one

!@#$%! · 05.22.2019, 10:45 AM

lmao blob on tv saying “ russia is a hoax” ha ha ha ha

he keeps saying no collision lololo

get off the teevee motherfuker. what’s the news.

is he quitting? please fucking quit lol.

-

lol he keeps huffing. has breathing problems. will he croak?

is this a press comference or display of moaning?

fucking moaning donnie

!@#$%! · 05.22.2019, 10:49 AM

fucking crybaby professional victim lololololo

throwing a tantrum

!@#$%! · 05.22.2019, 11:03 AM

oh here comes nancy

she suspects “lack of confidence at the greatness of the challenge” ha hahaaaaa ahaa

i believe her

now here’s chucky

has a 35 page infrastructure plan. orange blob “is looking for every excuse”

haaa haaa haaaa

he ran away he says. oh haaa haaa haaaa. yep. “it was planned? he said.

oh here comes nancy again. tag team.

they’re politely tearing him a new asshole haaa haaa haaa

good job.

!@#$%! · 05.22.2019, 11:14 AM

now ron johnson is putting it on obama

haaaa haaaa haaaaa!

“thanks obama!”

ridiculous distraction. but at least he admits infrastructure is a problem.

!@#$%! · 05.22.2019, 11:32 AM

it was such a spectacle. i was lucky to see it live. i hope you guys get a chance to see the full video because it’s hilarious to see a fat old man who is supposed to be the leader of the free world act like a 4 year old throwing a tantrum lolololo.

it’s very worrisome of course, but i prefer to laugh

05.11.2019, 08:41 PM	#6661
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,548	again, not for functional illiterates — I led a platoon in Iraq. Trump is wrong to pardon war criminals. Soldiers pay attention to example. Murderous leaders command murderous units. By Waitman Wade Beorn Waitman Wade Beorn, a combat veteran of Iraq, is a Holocaust and genocide studies historian, a lecturer at the University of Virginia, and the author of “Marching Into Darkness: The Wehrmacht and the Holocaust in Belarus.” He is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point. May 9 In early 2003, as a cavalry officer, I stood in front of my scout platoon at dusk after a long day preparing to deploy to Iraq. I spoke with them about the law of war and how they should treat civilians when we got into theater. It wasn’t a long conversation, but I felt that giving clear guidance about what was acceptable — and not acceptable — was important. They should treat the civilians as they would neighbors, I told them. Soldiers take most seriously the things their leadership makes most serious. On Monday, President Trump pardoned the convicted war criminal Michael Behenna, who had murdered Ali Mansur, an unarmed, naked Iraqi, by shooting him in the head and chest. Making a specious claim of self-defense, Behenna argued that Mansur threw a piece of concrete at him and “ stood up like he’s coming at me.” And so he neutralized this threat, a naked man, already released by the Army. Behenna was supposed to be returning Mansur home to his village. A military court convicted Behenna of unpremeditated murder. American soldiers testified against him. The military court of appeals and a review panel upheld that conviction, though he was paroled early, in 2014. Even before pardoning Behenna, Trump demonstrated a disturbing flippancy toward war crimes. He has repeatedly expressed support for former Navy SEAL Edward Gallagher, another alleged war criminal. Gallagher’s own men told investigators that he had, according to the New York Times, “shot a girl in a flower-print hijab who was walking with other girls on the riverbank.” In 2017, Gallagher walked up to a 15-year-old prisoner of war and “stabbed the wounded teenager several times in the neck and once in the chest with his hunting knife, killing him.” He then texted images of his “kill” to friends. Even in the tightknit Special Operations community, fellow SEALs were horrified and repeatedly reported Gallagher’s behavior until charges were brought. He faces court-martial at the end of the month. Trump tweeted that Gallagher would be given better conditions in confinement “in honor of his past service,” an honor many would say he threw away long ago. Trump has also publicly supported Maj. Matt Golsteyn, who is charged with premeditated murder in the shooting of an unarmed man and the burning of his body in Afghanistan. “I will be reviewing the case of a ‘U.S. Military hero,’ ” the president tweeted. In at least three instances, then, our commander in chief appears to have preferred to overlook serious war crimes in favor of a warped notion of patriotism and heroism. Trump subscribes to a “bad things happen in war” mentality — odd for a man who actively avoided military service. This attitude is incredibly dangerous. It doesn’t just undermine the enforcement of military justice; it also sends a message to our armed forces about just what kind of conduct the United States takes seriously. In my book “Marching Into Darkness,” I wrote about the German army’s participation in the Holocaust at the small-unit level. One conclusion was that, even given the premeditated, racist and highly ideologized environment of the Wehrmacht, the culture of each unit and the institutional leadership most directly influenced whether war crimes were committed. Murderous leaders led murderous units, I found. Fortunately, the U.S. military does not exist in this kind of ethical quagmire. Compared with our opponents in the modern age, we have taken much more care to prosecute warfare in accordance with the laws of war. We have systems of military education that highlight our values and the law of armed conflict. And we have a military justice system that, while not perfect, prosecutes and condemns those service members who commit atrocities. In short, we have a foundation of military ethics that our combat leaders can stand on. But what happens when that ethical foundation erodes or crumbles? There are things we can learn from the German military and the Holocaust that are relevant today — without arguing that we are Nazis. One lesson is the influence of an institution’s culture on criminal behavior during wartime. The German state intentionally created such a culture (another important distinction from the current situation). Before a German soldier set foot in the Soviet Union, he received several unmistakable clues about what behavior would be acceptable. The Commissar Order explicitly called for the summary execution of all Red Army political officers, an act that violated all laws of war, including those that Germany was party to. Also, the guidelines for German troops, disseminated the day before the invasion, stated that “this war demands ruthless and aggressive action against Bolshevik agitators, snipers, saboteurs, and Jews and tireless elimination of any active or passive resistance.” “Passive resistance” would be interpreted liberally. Last, and most striking in light of Trump’s pardon of Behenna, was the Jurisdiction Order. Issued in May 1941 directly by Adolf Hitler, it informed troops that “for offenses committed by members of the Wehrmacht and its employees against enemy civilians, prosecution is not compulsory, not even if the offense is at the same time a military crime or violation.” Soldiers were literally told that they would not be tried for behavior that would be a crime anywhere else in Europe. The Wehrmacht proceeded to commit some of the worst atrocities in the history of modern warfare on a scale that obviously dwarfs anything we have seen in Iraq or Afghanistan. But the underlying lessons remain valid. Murderous leaders led murderous units. Soldiers took their cues from the guidance they were given and the examples they were shown. They were often more likely to commit war crimes because of their commanders’ signaling than because of Nazi ideology. (In my research on the Wehrmacht, I also discovered the corollary to be true: Leaders opposed to criminality led units that did not commit crimes.) When Trump champions war criminals as brave patriots who are simply victims of political correctness, he seems to push for a climate that condones unethical and criminal behavior. He appears to write off war crimes as the cost of doing business. If this is the example our military is given, we should not be surprised to see more Behennas and Gallaghers. Referring to the infamous Army “kill team ” in Afghanistan in 2009-2010, a senior military official noted the importance of the brigade commander’s aggressive guidance, which rejected any attempt to “win hearts and minds.” The official observed that “clearly, the guys who were pulling the trigger are the proximate cause of the crime, but the culture itself is the enabler.” No reasonable person would claim that Trump is Hitler or that the U.S. military is the German army in World War II. Cases like those stand out as so horrific precisely because the American military has the strong ethical foundation the Wehrmacht lacked and generally does not commit war crimes. But the dynamics of units in combat at ground level can be strikingly similar across time and space, and so we ignore historical lessons at our peril. Perhaps that’s why one case study from my research on the German army and the Holocaust forms the foundation of a training module for the U.S. military in conjunction with the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum and West Point. It is used by ROTC programs and military units across the country. Leaders are constantly making policy, by what they do — and by what they don’t do. Trump’s posture endangers our deployed men and women by betraying the trust of host nations that we will prosecute those rare individuals who commit crimes against their people. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...013_story.html
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.13.2019, 07:19 AM	#6662
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,548	lmao. that article wasn’t about who can vote. it’s about leadership.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.13.2019, 08:20 AM	#6663
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,548	please your rube goldberg justifications are the derangement
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.17.2019, 04:11 PM	#6665
ilduclo invito al cielo Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,305	Repub FCC Commissioner Michael O'Reilly spoke to an audience of debt collectors at ACA International. Debt collectors are one of the country's most zealous users of robocalls, a tool they deploy to hound people in debt. "Repeat after me," O'Reilly said, "'Robocall is not a bad word."
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.18.2019, 07:41 PM	#6666
tw2113 expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Dakota Posts: 2,147	They hound me about student loan debt I don't have __________________ Shake shake
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.19.2019, 08:19 AM	#6667
ilduclo invito al cielo Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,305	Living expenses for poor students now being taxed at 37%, a feature of the new Repulsian tax plan. Thanks, Trimp and Yertle!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.21.2019, 12:04 PM	#6668
ilduclo invito al cielo Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,305	Seekyoulow (trumps tiny attorney) is appealing the release of his financial records to the judge denied a Senate hearing for SCOTUS appointment, Merrick Garland.... :lol: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donal... hpmg00000067 In other Seekyoulow news, the little guy suborned perjury just how tiny is that little fellow? He is surprisingly buttery, though. https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/20/polit...sed/index.html
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.21.2019, 03:55 PM	#6669
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,548	democrats’ latest primary polls uncle joe way ahead of grandpa bear(nie) beto in the land of the forgotten biden-warren ticket? biden-harris?
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.21.2019, 08:36 PM	#6670
tw2113 expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Dakota Posts: 2,147	I think Biden is way up there more just from familiarity over 8 years as VP __________________ Shake shake
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.21.2019, 08:43 PM	#6671
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,548	yeah but 20pts is 20pts...
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.21.2019, 09:13 PM	#6672
tw2113 expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Dakota Posts: 2,147	I'm already over the election cycle and we're literally 18 months away. It's going to be a long time. __________________ Shake shake
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.21.2019, 09:38 PM	#6673
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,548	lmao i know what you mean but here’s to booting that ugly orange mutha if we do, it will all have been worth it if we don’t, then, okay, i’ll be the first to punch the wall
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.22.2019, 10:45 AM	#6676
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,548	lmao blob on tv saying “ russia is a hoax” ha ha ha ha he keeps saying no collision lololo get off the teevee motherfuker. what’s the news. is he quitting? please fucking quit lol. - lol he keeps huffing. has breathing problems. will he croak? is this a press comference or display of moaning? fucking moaning donnie
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.22.2019, 10:49 AM	#6677
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,548	fucking crybaby professional victim lololololo throwing a tantrum
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.22.2019, 11:03 AM	#6678
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,548	oh here comes nancy she suspects “lack of confidence at the greatness of the challenge” ha hahaaaaa ahaa i believe her now here’s chucky has a 35 page infrastructure plan. orange blob “is looking for every excuse” haaa haaa haaaa he ran away he says. oh haaa haaa haaaa. yep. “it was planned? he said. oh here comes nancy again. tag team. they’re politely tearing him a new asshole haaa haaa haaa good job.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.22.2019, 11:14 AM	#6679
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,548	now ron johnson is putting it on obama haaaa haaaa haaaaa! “thanks obama!” ridiculous distraction. but at least he admits infrastructure is a problem.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.22.2019, 11:32 AM	#6680
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,548	it was such a spectacle. i was lucky to see it live. i hope you guys get a chance to see the full video because it’s hilarious to see a fat old man who is supposed to be the leader of the free world act like a 4 year old throwing a tantrum lolololo. it’s very worrisome of course, but i prefer to laugh
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|