[Keeping It Simple]

Originally Posted by Pookie

"Among the countries condemning Israel for its attack are Russia, Turkey, India, China, Brazil, France, Spain and many more. By stark contrast, the White House issued a statement which conspicuously refused to condemn the Israelis (Obama "expressed deep regret at the loss of life in today’s incident, and concern for the wounded"), while the U.S. State Department actually hinted at condemning the civilians delivering the aid ("we support expanding the flow of goods to the people of Gaza. But this must be done in a spirit of cooperation, not confrontation").

Obama's call for "learning all the facts and circumstances" is reasonable enough, but all these other countries made clear that this attack could never be justified based on what is already indisputably known: namely, that the ship attacked by Israel was in international waters and it resulted in the deaths and injuries to dozens of civilians but no Israeli soldiers were killed and a tiny handful injured. In any event, Obama's neutrality will have to give way to a definitive statement one way or the other, and soon."

There are 195 countries in the world. It's only the ones involved in espionage and undercover spy operations that have hypocritically condemned Israel. No doubt because they all have a guilty conscience.

[nicfit]

I dunno, I agree with the fact that there are 195 countries in the world (taiwan), but I think many of them have no idea of what's going on in other places of the world, and some have so little international "weight" that googlin' their names something else comes up..
Like Lichtenstein.

[Florya]

I'm not sure what sort of 'get out of jail free card' Israel has with the USA, but it need to be withdrawn pronto. These fuckers are out of control.

[ploesj]

Originally Posted by Florya

I'm not sure what sort of 'get out of jail free card' Israel has with the USA, but it need to be withdrawn pronto. These fuckers are out of control.

think about how many jewish (or better said, pro-israël') people there are in the usa.

think about how screwed every single president of the usa would be if this community turned against him for reacting against israel's actions.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by ploesj

think about how many jewish (or better said, pro-israël') people there are in the usa.

think about how screwed every single president of the usa would be if this community turned against him for reacting against israel's actions.

That's a lame excuse. America is always pissing people off. There's a large Muslim population in the US, probably larger than the Jewish population. Didn't stop them from invading Iraq or Afghanistan.

The American government, who seem to be the only authority that Israel recognises outside its own government, need to grow some balls, tell Israel that killing civilians on the high seas is unacceptable, and cut off military and economic aid.

Israel is a fucking 'rogue nation' that thinks it can do what it likes to it's neighbours in order to further its expansionist goals.

There has to be a point when the world says 'ENOUGH'!!!

If dropping white phosphorous on Palestinian schoolchildren wasn't the tipping point, then murdering foreign nationals in an act of piracy should be. If that's not, then what the fuck will be? It can't be allowed to continue.

[ploesj]

Originally Posted by Florya

That's a lame excuse. America is always pissing people off. There's a large Muslim population in the US, probably larger than the Jewish population. Didn't stop them from invading Iraq or Afghanistan.

The American government, who seem to be the only authority that Israel recognises outside its own government, need to grow some balls, tell Israel that killing civilians on the high seas is unacceptable, and cut off military and economic aid.

Israel is a fucking 'rogue nation' that thinks it can do what it likes to it's neighbours in order to further its expansionist goals.

There has to be a point when the world says 'ENOUGH'!!!

If dropping white phosphorous on Palestinian schoolchildren wasn't the tipping point, then murdering foreign nationals in an act of piracy should be. If that's not, then what the fuck will be? It can't be allowed to continue.

i don't agree with this either, and it's true that there's a large muslim community in america, but it's a fact that the jewish community is quite a bit more powerful in business and politics.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by ploesj

i don't agree with this either, and it's true that there's a large muslim community in america, but it's a fact that the jewish community is quite a bit more powerful in business and politics.

So what?
The USA could and should put a stop to Israel's excesses. Not to do so is aiding and abetting Israel's growing list of crimes against humanity.

Now that Israel has shown that it is quite willing and capable of attacking it's last Muslim ally in the region, it makes you wonder which 'friendly' nation it will attack next.

Those ships in the aid flotilla were carrying passenges from all over the world, not just Turkey. Would the American government be quite as ready to defend Israel if American nationals had been killed?

You know what, they probably would.

[chicka]

No way no how the USA upsets Israel. It has nothing to do with President being screwed by anti-Israel sentiment. Look where Israel is located, if it comes down to a large scale war in the Mideast we have a strong hold in Israel where we can reach out and attack all them oil rich countries from.

Plus Israel has atomic power. They probably have more stored WMD than all those other nations in the Mideast combined.

No way USA risk loosing the Ally they have in Israel. No way they give up that land.

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

I saw a thing a year or so ago that was talking about Israel's plan to attack Iran's nuclear development program through the use of bunker busters on known underground facilities, and that they're going to do it at some point, with or without British/US cooperation.

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Originally Posted by Keeping It Simple

It must be a total mindfuck living in America in relation to the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

A friend of mine killed himself in Afghanistan.

But I think it would be far worse to be geographically in the middle of it, and have everyone I know having gone through mandatory military service and have yet even more people I know have to die for the terroristic notions of my government.

[Keeping It Simple]

Originally Posted by nicfit

I dunno, I agree with the fact that there are 195 countries in the world (taiwan), but I think many of them have no idea of what's going on in other places of the world, and some have so little international "weight" that googlin' their names something else comes up..
Like Lichtenstein.

How would you know?

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by space

so, what yr suggesting is that TURKEY, loaded up a crack squad of israeli commandos into israeli boats and helicopters with the express intent of sacrificing 20 TURKS "for the common good"? if I actually thought that you were more than a skilled troll, I'd attempt to debate yr logic-faults, but as it is, not even tesla69 could drag up such conspiratorial thoughts MAYBE IT WAS THE UFOS???

Thanks for the compliment but it wasn't ufos. My favorite part of this is how the Israeli's commandos needed to shoot because while they were invading and attacking ships in international waters they had to defend themselves against people on the boats they were attacking. You see, they attack a ship but they are defending themselves.

The corporate media keeps repeating it. Like the parrots they are.

And Hamas are nazi scum. No sympathy there.

[amerikangod]

Wait, time-out.

 

Israel is a real place? I thought everyone was always just talking about the plot progression of a long-running (albeit shitty) soap opera.

[space]

Originally Posted by tesla69

Thanks for the compliment but it wasn't ufos.

I didn't intend to disparage you, but you do come up with some doozies.... I know that you don't believe in UFO's (that aren't being controlled by CIA-China).

that said, I still often agree with you, or at least yr intentions.

and yes, Hamas are no better than "the other side".

----

any sane person who does not agree with Hamas, or violence in particular, should see how Israel's current actions are flying the face of rationality or any intention for true peace.

why pick a side when both are very wrong??

[space]

Originally Posted by amerikangod

Israel is a real place? I thought everyone was always just talking about the plot progression of a long-running (albeit shitty) soap opera.

"They" always reuse old sets. I believe that Israel is being filmed in the same location as Capricorn One.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by chicka

No way no how the USA upsets Israel. It has nothing to do with President being screwed by anti-Israel sentiment. Look where Israel is located, if it comes down to a large scale war in the Mideast we have a strong hold in Israel where we can reach out and attack all them oil rich countries from.

Plus Israel has atomic power. They probably have more stored WMD than all those other nations in the Mideast combined.

No way USA risk loosing the Ally they have in Israel. No way they give up that land.

you know the saying, "there are no permanent enemies or permanent allies, only permanent interests".

considered what happened with turkey and conflicting interests between having a powerful neighbor on their side and an angry muslim populace within. turkey still has nato, but israel has no friends nearby.

all that it takes for the usa-israel alliance to break is for israel to become such a burden on the united states that we're willing to let go of it. of course there's AIPAC, and pro-israel interests have HUGE sway in american politics, to a level that doesn't exist in another country, but that's not something that couldn't be overcome by public outrage led by isolationist groups (ron paul et. al.)

netanyahu is a fucking oaf and a bully and a demagogue who was behind the murder of yitzak rabin, and now he's taking his country into the fascist hellhole that gives him wet dreams every night.

he needs to be kicked out of power, but with the disgraceful support of the labor party betraying itself, plus the right-wing immigrant party, he'll continue pushing palestinians to radicalize while at the same time claiming that it's such a radicalization that forces him to continue the systematic oppresion of palestinians. at the same time, the so-called "new-antisemitism" continues on the rise as israel is equated with apartheid south-africa or even genocidal nazism-- which is wrong--south africa is a better comparison.

however, israel is NOT that netanyahu swine, but labor and the left have been ineffectual and now labor cozyied up to him to form a coalition government. kadima remains as the opposition and, even though they were founded by the swine ariel sharon, this hapened at the time when sharon had seen the need to forge peace with the palestinians. then, conveniently, he had a stroke, just like rabin was killed on the eve of peace.

anyway, about 49% of the population support netanyahu-- that leaves another 51% who oppose him but can't get rid of him at the moment. so let's not be so quick to condemn a whole country for its pigheaded leaders.

nevertheless, no alliances are permanent, etc etc.

i forget where i was going with this, but it's time for breakfast anyway.

[nicfit]

Originally Posted by Keeping It Simple

How would you know?

I phoned some people and they were clueless.

[ni'k]

THE FIRST BRAVE HEROES HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE ISRAELI BEERSHIVA PRISON AND SENT TO ATHENS, IN GREECE .. BELOW IS THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENED .. ABOUT THE BRUTAL ATTACK BY ISRAEL ON AN UNARMED HUMANITARIAN AID CONVOY .. IT IS TRULY SHOCKING .. PLEASE SPREAD THE TRUTH
Gaza aid flotilla activists talk of beatings, electric shocks

By Elena Becatoros, Suzan Fraser, The Associated Press

Last Updated: June 1, 2010 7:02am


ATHENS — Activists returning to Europe after Israeli forces raided their aid flotilla said Tuesday that the commandos had beaten passengers and used electric shocks during the assault.

Six Greeks and several others, including a Turkish woman and her 1-year-old baby, were released Tuesday, but Israel has barred access to hundreds of others seized during the raid that killed at least nine people and wounded dozens early Monday.

Most of those killed were aboard the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara, and there have been conflicting accounts of what happened during the assault.

Turkish activist Nilufer Cetin, who had hidden with her baby in her cabin’s bathroom aboard the Mavi Marmara, told reporters she believed there were 11 dead.

“The ship turned into a lake of blood,” Cetin told reporters in Istanbul, having returned after Israeli officials warned that jail would be too harsh for her child.

“We were aware of the possible danger” in joining the trip, she said. “But there are thousands of babies in Gaza. If we had reached Gaza we would have played with them and taken them food.”

She said Israeli vessels “harassed” the flotilla for two hours starting around 10 p.m. Sunday, and returned at around 4 a.m. Monday, fired warning shots and told the ships to turn back.

“When the Mavi Marmara continued on its course the harassment turned into an attack. They used smoke bombs followed by gas canisters. They started to descend onto the ship with helicopters,” she said, calling the clashes that then erupted “extremely bad and brutal.”

“I was one of the first victims to be released because I had a child,” she told reporters, but “they confiscated everything, our telephones, laptops are all gone.” Her husband — the ship’s engineer — was still being held by Israeli authorities.

Some 400 Turkish activists were on the six-ship flotilla, along with more than 30 Greeks and people of some 20 other nations including Germany, the U.S. and Russia.

The ships had been trying to break the three-year blockade of Gaza to deliver humanitarian aid, the activists said.

“Suddenly from everywhere we saw inflatables coming at us, and within seconds fully equipped commandos came up on the boat,” said Greek activist Dimitris Gielalis, who had been aboard the Sfendoni. He was among six Greeks returned home Tuesday.

“They came up and used plastic bullets, we had beatings, we had electric shocks, any method we can think of, they used,” he said.

He said the boat’s captain was beaten for refusing to leave the wheel, and had sustained non-life-threatening injuries, while a cameraman filming the raid was hit with a rifle butt in the eye,“ he said. “Of course we weren’t prepared for a situation of war.“

The returning Greeks said those still in custody were refusing to sign papers demanded by Israeli authorities.

“During their interrogation, many of them were badly beaten in front of us,” said Aris Papadokostopoulos, who was aboard the Free Mediterranean travelling behind the Turkish ship and carrying mainly Greek and Swedish activists.

Papadokostopoulos said the flotilla was about 80 miles (130 kilometres) off Gaza when the raid occurred around 4 a.m. Monday.

“The Turkish ship was in front of us ... on which there was a terrible raid from the air and from the sea and from everywhere, with shooting,” he said.

Aboard the other boats, he said, commandos beat activists, but nobody was gravely injured. He said no one put up resistance on the Free Mediterranean, which was carrying a cargo of wheelchairs, building material and medical and pharmaceutical aid.

“Some people were hit by clubs and electric shocks,” he said.

Crew member Mihalis Grigoropoulos said he was on the bridge of the Free Mediterranean and heard shooting coming from the Turkish ship.

Several people who tried to stop the Israeli forces from getting to the bridge were hit by electric shocks and plastic bullets, he said. “We didn’t’ resist at all. Even if we had wanted to, what could we do?”

Civil engineer Thanassis Petrogiannis said he had joined the flotilla to provide help in rebuilding destroyed Palestinian homes.

He said that, while in Israeli custody, authorities had demanded he sign a paper written in Hebrew. He refused, and was eventually given another document that he signed.

“Everyone who didn’t accept to sign is in jail,” he said.

Grigoropoulos, the crew member, and Gielalis said they were not asked to sign anything, though their cellphones, cameras and clothes were confiscated before they were expelled.

While the six Greeks “are in good health,” Foreign Ministry Spokesman Grigoris Delavekouras said Greece was demanding the others still in custody be repatriated as soon as possible.

“Israel bears responsibility for their safety. So it must contribute so they can return quickly to Greece,” he said.

Turkey said it was sending three ambulance planes to Israel to pick up 20 more Turkish activists injured in the operation.

Three Turkish Airlines planes were on standby waiting to fly back other activists, the prime minister’s office said.


http://bsnorrell.blogspot.com/2010/0...-shock-on.html

[Keeping It Simple]

Originally Posted by ni'k

THE FIRST BRAVE HEROES HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE ISRAELI BEERSHIVA PRISON AND SENT TO ATHENS, IN GREECE .. BELOW IS THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENED .. ABOUT THE BRUTAL ATTACK BY ISRAEL ON AN UNARMED HUMANITARIAN AID CONVOY .. IT IS TRULY SHOCKING .. PLEASE SPREAD THE TRUTH
Gaza aid flotilla activists talk of beatings, electric shocks

By Elena Becatoros, Suzan Fraser, The Associated Press

Last Updated: June 1, 2010 7:02am


ATHENS — Activists returning to Europe after Israeli forces raided their aid flotilla said Tuesday that the commandos had beaten passengers and used electric shocks during the assault.

Six Greeks and several others, including a Turkish woman and her 1-year-old baby, were released Tuesday, but Israel has barred access to hundreds of others seized during the raid that killed at least nine people and wounded dozens early Monday.

Most of those killed were aboard the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara, and there have been conflicting accounts of what happened during the assault.

Turkish activist Nilufer Cetin, who had hidden with her baby in her cabin’s bathroom aboard the Mavi Marmara, told reporters she believed there were 11 dead.

“The ship turned into a lake of blood,” Cetin told reporters in Istanbul, having returned after Israeli officials warned that jail would be too harsh for her child.

“We were aware of the possible danger” in joining the trip, she said. “But there are thousands of babies in Gaza. If we had reached Gaza we would have played with them and taken them food.”

She said Israeli vessels “harassed” the flotilla for two hours starting around 10 p.m. Sunday, and returned at around 4 a.m. Monday, fired warning shots and told the ships to turn back.

“When the Mavi Marmara continued on its course the harassment turned into an attack. They used smoke bombs followed by gas canisters. They started to descend onto the ship with helicopters,” she said, calling the clashes that then erupted “extremely bad and brutal.”

“I was one of the first victims to be released because I had a child,” she told reporters, but “they confiscated everything, our telephones, laptops are all gone.” Her husband — the ship’s engineer — was still being held by Israeli authorities.

Some 400 Turkish activists were on the six-ship flotilla, along with more than 30 Greeks and people of some 20 other nations including Germany, the U.S. and Russia.

The ships had been trying to break the three-year blockade of Gaza to deliver humanitarian aid, the activists said.

“Suddenly from everywhere we saw inflatables coming at us, and within seconds fully equipped commandos came up on the boat,” said Greek activist Dimitris Gielalis, who had been aboard the Sfendoni. He was among six Greeks returned home Tuesday.

“They came up and used plastic bullets, we had beatings, we had electric shocks, any method we can think of, they used,” he said.

He said the boat’s captain was beaten for refusing to leave the wheel, and had sustained non-life-threatening injuries, while a cameraman filming the raid was hit with a rifle butt in the eye,“ he said. “Of course we weren’t prepared for a situation of war.“

The returning Greeks said those still in custody were refusing to sign papers demanded by Israeli authorities.

“During their interrogation, many of them were badly beaten in front of us,” said Aris Papadokostopoulos, who was aboard the Free Mediterranean travelling behind the Turkish ship and carrying mainly Greek and Swedish activists.

Papadokostopoulos said the flotilla was about 80 miles (130 kilometres) off Gaza when the raid occurred around 4 a.m. Monday.

“The Turkish ship was in front of us ... on which there was a terrible raid from the air and from the sea and from everywhere, with shooting,” he said.

Aboard the other boats, he said, commandos beat activists, but nobody was gravely injured. He said no one put up resistance on the Free Mediterranean, which was carrying a cargo of wheelchairs, building material and medical and pharmaceutical aid.

“Some people were hit by clubs and electric shocks,” he said.

Crew member Mihalis Grigoropoulos said he was on the bridge of the Free Mediterranean and heard shooting coming from the Turkish ship.

Several people who tried to stop the Israeli forces from getting to the bridge were hit by electric shocks and plastic bullets, he said. “We didn’t’ resist at all. Even if we had wanted to, what could we do?”

Civil engineer Thanassis Petrogiannis said he had joined the flotilla to provide help in rebuilding destroyed Palestinian homes.

He said that, while in Israeli custody, authorities had demanded he sign a paper written in Hebrew. He refused, and was eventually given another document that he signed.

“Everyone who didn’t accept to sign is in jail,” he said.

Grigoropoulos, the crew member, and Gielalis said they were not asked to sign anything, though their cellphones, cameras and clothes were confiscated before they were expelled.

While the six Greeks “are in good health,” Foreign Ministry Spokesman Grigoris Delavekouras said Greece was demanding the others still in custody be repatriated as soon as possible.

“Israel bears responsibility for their safety. So it must contribute so they can return quickly to Greece,” he said.

Turkey said it was sending three ambulance planes to Israel to pick up 20 more Turkish activists injured in the operation.

Three Turkish Airlines planes were on standby waiting to fly back other activists, the prime minister’s office said.


http://bsnorrell.blogspot.com/2010/0...-shock-on.html

It's like they're reading from a script. What a load of biased bullshit.

[ni'k]

yawn.