[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by mysonichaircut

At least boycotting AZ seems to have a positive effect, if many people start to discuss the questions we do.

yes, I understand they stand to lose hundreds of millions of dollars from canceled business conferences, various conventions, canceled vacations, canceled orders/contracts etc etc..

CA learned its lesson with prop 187 fiasco and we will NEVER try some silly shit like that again an AZ is learning its lesson too.. America has ALWAYS been an immigrant nation, and nativist racism is always the minority..

besides all the founding fathers were fucking illegals as far as the indians were concerned

[canvasseamonkey]

I want to spend more of my money to see more SY shows.
I do NOT want my ever increasing taxes to be spent on supporting illegal parents that don't care about the country enough to register and pay taxes to support their own children.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by canvasseamonkey

I want to spend more of my money to see more SY shows.
I do NOT want my ever increasing taxes to be spent on supporting illegal parents that don't care about the country enough to register and pay taxes to support their own children.

that is so ignorant and silly. what, do you think you just fill out a form and pay a small fee like at the DMV? it takes upwards of ten years and thousands and thousands of dollars, and further many people are frightened and intimidated by the racist/nativist sentiments of law enforcement, the naturalization process, the image of america portrayed by the media, and of course silly statements like yours in the social climate.

maybe if people supported amnesty programs and effective immigration/naturalization reform then perhaps all those people you mentioned would simply "register and pay taxes"

do you think it is somehow easy to live your life as a criminal or that everyday working people without proper documentation enjoy it?

[canvasseamonkey]

That did sound short sided. I should have prefaced by saying explaining my parents immigrated from Guyana, went through the naturalization process and bothered to take time to do things the right way. They seemed to be able to do it even though they were ultra-broke. Maybe they are just weird.

The AZ law itself is extreme but hopefully the government will wake up enough to change the way immigration is regulated rather than let people not care about laws.

[HaydenAsche]

[quote=sizzlemeat]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

a) do you fucking honestly believe that the cops are going to ask EVERYONE about citizenship? I hardly believe that they will not simply harrass and profile latinos and asians in this regard, and obviously you don't get profiled very often or you might be a bit more empathetic.

b) just because profiling happens, doesn't mean we should accept or promote it. they used to lynch niggers and cremate jews too

c) again, the LAW HASN'T EVEN WENT INTO EFFECT YET! wait a year or two and see the results, you will have racism rampant in law enforcement..

d) so what if latinos become the largest group, why does that threaten you? America is a pluralistic society, why should white people have all the fun?



A. I'm not going to sit here and lie and claim that I get stopped and harassed, thrown into cop cars, threatened with deportation and the such when it doesn't happen to me! I HAVE however had to deal with individual people's sneering, judgemental, and unpleasant racist attitudes and totally know how it feels to be judged by the color of my skin. So yes, I can feel for others who are hispanic.

B. How radical, cool, and "ironic" of you to use the word "nigger" to get a point across. THAT'S offensive. Sarah Silverman fan right?

C. Read the bill! There are too many ways that Law Enforcement can come under fire with law-suits under SB-17 for blatant and obvious profiling. It's been made very clear that any and everybody has to be asked, everybody has to be profiled, and if you have a witness and not everybody in a stopped vehicle is asked about their status you have grounds for a lawsuit saying the police didn't profile you basically and a number of enforcement agencies are paranoid of the chances of being sued. And at this point AZ knows the government is keeping a close watchful eye on what's going on here, and I highly doubt anything will get out of hand. That's even suggesting that anything happens because LUCKILY nobody with pushing power supports the bill.

D. Hello! I'm freaking MEXICAN! It doesn't threaten me, I think it's fine I was simply stating a FACT and not even in a negative light. Jesus Christ dude. The fact that you read what I wrote and automatically flip it around to somehow be racist totally kills your credibility to me because it just makes you look paranoid and ready to pounce on anything you can take out of context and turn in your favor.

Have you never been through border patrol? Living in Silver City and making bi-weekly trips to Cruces showed me one thing. If it's all white kids in the car, we skate through quickly. If there is someone of latin origins, we've got to stand outside our vehicle as the drug dogs tear it apart.

[mysonichaircut]

Originally Posted by canvasseamonkey

I want to spend more of my money to see more SY shows.
I do NOT want my ever increasing taxes to be spent on supporting illegal parents that don't care about the country enough to register and pay taxes to support their own children.

Wow. You pay taxes? How nice. Do you know what they do with that money? Do you really think the taxes are increasing because of the illegals not supporting their children? Man. Ok, and evan IF your taxes were increasing because of some children - where do you have the money from to pay taxes? You have it from the countrey, where those children come from. See my previous posts. Man, i've read that many americans even cant find their own countrey on the map, i never believed it, but now i do. I am really astonished how many here on the board dont know the basic facts on politics or social life. Its frightening.

To be exact: The ultra-konservatives claim the Illigals "cost" the tax-payers 10 billions a year. Let it be true. The military alone costs the tax-payers 500 billions a year! (Thats 50% of what the whole world together spends for weapons! And you fear someone could support children with that money - i cant believe it!). And i didnt mention, that those Illigals are the base of the us economy, because most of them are working in the us factories for almost nothing - so its only fair, if they dont pay taxes.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by mysonichaircut

To be exact: The ultra-konservatives claim the Illigals "cost" the tax-payers 10 billions a year. Let it be true. The military alone costs the tax-payers 500 billions a year! .

The US Govt released a report that says that 'illegal' immigrants contributed over $7BILLION to the social security program in 2005 alone, by the way, a system which NONE of them can receive a return in benefits..

[Rob Instigator]

and all illegal immigrants pay every single tax except income tax, which, at their rate (if we assume that most are working class, lower middle class), would all be refunded anyway.

90% of our taxation comes from sales taxes and luxury taxes on gasoline and cigarretes. legal or illegal, everyone pasy those taxes and they go to programs that most illegals cannot access. the tax issue is a red herring.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

and all illegal immigrants pay every single tax except income tax, which, at their rate (if we assume that most are working class, lower middle class), would all be refunded anyway.

exactly. the whole "illegal immigrants don't contribute to taxes" is a red herring fallacy, meant to distract people from reality. They contribute to property taxes (whether they own or rent), state taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes, etc etc. Therefore their children are not a drain on public schools and they are not a drain on the public health/welfare programs, because they largely contribute at the state and local level.

[wellcharge]

sonic youth contribute greatly to xenophobia, they should have been called sonic youf so i don't laughed at any time i try to pronounce it

[EVOLghost]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

arizona will be upset when Los Tigres Del Norte can't come to jam their cumbia!

Haha I saw them when I was like 8 years old.

[Sublimedo]

Didn't SY play China a couple years ago?Where was the protest there?

Don't make the fans suffer. Not everyone has the means to leave their shittily-governed state.

[HaydenAsche]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

exactly. the whole "illegal immigrants don't contribute to taxes" is a red herring fallacy, meant to distract people from reality. They contribute to property taxes (whether they own or rent), state taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes, etc etc. Therefore their children are not a drain on public schools and they are not a drain on the public health/welfare programs, because they largely contribute at the state and local level.

Friends, it's off-topic but I don't have Private Messages. I'll be in Los Angeles in a few months and would very much like to have some tea and a bowl and ask you some questions. I feel as if your wealth of knowledge regarding culture would be of help with my thesis(yet to be started but). Send me an e-mail at hayden_asche@hotmail.com

[dirtysister]

I’ve lived in Tucson my whole life and half the police here are Hispanic. The several chiefs of police for as long as I can remember are Hispanic. If you’re raciest against Mexicans in Arizona you’re not going to be popular. Most Hispanics I know are against illegal immigration. This boycott shit is just a trend for the ignorant that don’t know anything about the state, the people or this bill. It’s nothing more than Mccain trying to get votes. If Youth wants to be trendy than fuck them. They just came to Tucson in January and they haven’t been here before since 1986. So, I don’t expect them to ever come back anyways. I wouldn’t be surprised if Thurston and Kim started adopting African babies.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

and all illegal immigrants pay every single tax except income tax, which, at their rate (if we assume that most are working class, lower middle class), would all be refunded anyway..

but not the ones working under the table for cash...

I remember when Jean Louis Costes was working as a dishwasher in Philly in a Chinese restaurant as an illegal...he was just happy to be working (little did we know then he owned an apartment in Paris fre and clear)

[Rob Instigator]

people working under the table for cash do so because it benefits their EMPLOYER, so he/she does not have to pay income taxes, or social security taxes, nor does the employer then have to provide benefits, health insurance, sick time, vacation time, etc. if your worker gets sick, you just fire them. They are just "worthless cogs in the machine" right?

[Rob Instigator]

Sonic Youth have been "boycotting" Houston for three years!

[the ikara cult]

Surely to combat this SY should play a show in the desert, on the border, by the fence, consisting of (I got a) Catholic Block stretched over 2 hours

[tesla69]

where does it stop? by all means they should boycott Mississippie a totally rascist state

Ms. Williams drove from Jackson Mississippi to Winona to start her first day observing the murder trial. She is spending the summer as an intern in the Mississippi Office for Capital Defense. As she was approaching Winona, a Montgomery County police car followed her for about a mile then turned on his lights and pulled her over.
When she rolled down her window, the officer instructed Ms. Williams to place her hands on the steering wheel and not look at him, look directly ahead. She complied. She knew she had not been speeding and had broken no laws.
He asked Ms. Williams where she was going. She asked him, “Have I broken any laws?” He responded, that’s not the question I asked you. What I asked is where are you going? Ms. Williams said “There should be some reason why you pulled me over.” The deputy said, I’m going to ask you again. Where are you going? She told him, “I’m going to the courthouse.” He then asked her, what is your business in Winona? She told him, “It is not any of your business why I am here in Winona.” He said, if that’s where you’re going, you need to drive straight to the courthouse and stay out of trouble.
The police car then followed Ms. Williams for about 500 feet and then turned off.

She was on eher way to witness the trial of Curtis Flowers, who "has been in jail since 1996 awaiting trial and was previously tried for these murders in 1997, 1999, 2004, 2007 and 2008. All either ended in hung juries or overturned convictions."
http://www.counterpunch.org/

[Pax Americana]

Scanning the forum quickly lead me to believe for a second that this thread was titled, "Sonic Youth boycotting fucking sheep!" Boy was I confused. I always thought they were pro animal sex?