[Keeping It Simple]

I'm too ashamed to bring into the discussion the UK's NHS, it's that fucked up.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

the problem is simple. A large portion of americans do not want to share their tax burden with those folks who have no help, the other half have been brainwashed to believe that good reform will drive up their health care costs, when in actuality it is the opposite. What I have learned from the social climate during this debate is that many americans are selfish, self-centered, and self-righteous, and until those issues are addressed NOTHING will happen as usual.

[akprodr]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

many americans are selfish, self-centered, and self-righteous, and until those issues are addressed NOTHING will happen

Too true.

And a large percentage of those people are the effing 'christian' right who seem to believe one thing on sunday and conveniently forget it the rest of the week.

[knox]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

^^^ what if all of the above was mandated to be provided to you by Wal•Mart?

that's close to what we're dealing with.

you mean all that is not provided by walmart?

[knox]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

the problem is simple. A large portion of americans do not want to share their tax burden with those folks who have no help, the other half have been brainwashed to believe that good reform will drive up their health care costs, when in actuality it is the opposite. What I have learned from the social climate during this debate is that many americans are selfish, self-centered, and self-righteous, and until those issues are addressed NOTHING will happen as usual.

they say they have nothing to do with their tax money being used to kill innocent people in pointless wars, but when it comes to using that money to save the life of an immigrant OH NO, not with MY taxes!

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by akprodr

Too true.

And a large percentage of those people are the effing 'christian' right who seem to believe one thing on sunday and conveniently forget it the rest of the week.

this has been a problem in america since its very conception. The worst slave master in the day was the church going variety, who piously abused their slaves in the name of God while the most religious folks pushed the genocidal manifest destiny from sea to blood-stained sea

again, I think that in the US we would have to start out with "care" (that means spending tax money to help your fellow man, not get a tax break to buy a new flatscreen TV for your SUV) and then "health" (that means that McDonalds can no longer be the official food of the Olympics ) in order to even remotely begin to have health care, let alone to have health care reform.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by knox

they say they have nothing to do with their tax money being used to kill innocent people in pointless wars, but when it comes to using that money to save the life of an immigrant OH NO, not with MY taxes!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to knox again.

Originally Posted by knox

you mean all that is not provided by walmart?

don't hate, Walmart filled $200 worth of prescription for $14 last friday, saved my bronchitis from evolving in pneumonia

[knox]

Mmm, yes. But I do not agree with telling people what to eat and what to do, as a fascist attempt to establish "health".

Practice sports, eat well so your death can come at minimum cost for the state?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by knox

Mmm, yes. But I do not agree with telling people what to eat and what to do, as a fascist attempt to establish "health".

Practice sports, eat well so your death can come at minimum cost for the state?

true.. but telling people to eat whatever the fuck they feel like whenever they want too and letting scandalous companies brainwash our children with mass media advertising to grow up as steady consumers addicted to imitation food products has not been working so well and so is not a viable alternative my dear

[knox]

well, you could also educate people so they could make decisions for themselves, a wild idea.

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

I'm probably ignorant to the complexity of the issue at hand (hell, I hardly even know what the new bill is). But, I've always felt that the best way to resolve this would be to turn over the entire health industry to the free market.

Honest competition = lower prices, and higher standards.

I heard something on the radio today about Michigan wanting to be exempt from the new bill.

...and to think people 'round these parts used to LOVE Obama .

[Rob Instigator]

the healthcare industry is held in chains by INSURANCE COMPANIES who are the ones that actually determine who gets what treatment, what treatments are covered, and all that shit.

I would much rather have that aspect in public servants hands tha in the hands of the greedhead cocsuck assholes that run insurance companies.

free market is BULLSHIT.
all markets must be regulated to some extebnt to prevent outright fraud, malicious hurts, and just plain shoddy merchandise.

"Free trade" only goes in one drection. it is bullshit.

[knox]

yes, the idea that free market is going to give you best service and lower prices is just. I mean, they have been doing that for a while, and that's how they collectively decided to overcharge everyone and then deny as much care as they can in order to maximize profits. I don't care if they do that in the hair pin industry, but you know.

Health care is just too serious to have the interest of profit as its drive. Nobody would consider giving away the police to corporate control, because it seems pretty obvious that is a shit idea. I don't see why health should be different.

If you can afford your private plan, good for you. Hopefully you will not lose your assets if you get cancer, fingers crossed (as if cancer wasn't bad enough).

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i don't think you get the guy-- his primary campaign against hillary had very long odds, he stuck to his game and won in the end.

health care / health insurance reform has been attempted here FOR 100 YEARS. clinton started from a strong position and broke his teeth. obama learned this and started from the center-- proposing some shit that even nixon (republican "not a crook" dead president) had attempted. the teabaggers polarized the game because a lot of reasons but basically because they fear that the negro socialist will take away their freedom.

balls, no balls, opinions, assholes, etc.-- results is what counts and we got them

I do know that a lot of the problem is that the American political system is so screwed up that a hugely popular aspect (the public option) was jetissoned because it was considered politically impossible, despite being so popular with the public.

And this:

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the healthcare industry is held in chains by INSURANCE COMPANIES who are the ones that actually determine who gets what treatment, what treatments are covered, and all that shit.

I would much rather have that aspect in public servants hands tha in the hands of the greedhead cocsuck assholes that run insurance companies.

free market is BULLSHIT.
all markets must be regulated to some extebnt to prevent outright fraud, malicious hurts, and just plain shoddy merchandise.

"Free trade" only goes in one drection. it is bullshit.

[knox]

I am not saying I am against private insurance, I am just saying there must be a public service WORKING alternative for when:
a- you cannot afford it
b- privates turn you down

because, truth is, private insurance is for healthy people who like to see a fancy doctor once in a while.
if you are or could be sick, if you have pre-existing conditions or if you're too old, chances are you won't be able to afford it or they won't cover you anyway.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by knox

well, you could also educate people so they could make decisions for themselves, a wild idea.

I'm tired of the whole 'educate people' argument. Just ban all the stupid things that only stupid people buy. they're too stupid to actively oppose it anyway.

[knox]

but if stupid people did not buy stupid things no one would have a job.

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

John Stossel - Sick In America (part 1 of 6)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEXFUbSbg1I

[floatingslowly]

again, 40% rate increase and now a $2500 fine if you don't pay Big Insurance money. Big Insurance now "has" to accept pre-existing conditions at a price they choose "high risk pool" etc.

lose your job>high blood pressure>can't afford a premium>lose insurance>fined by IRS>shit repo'd

this is Amerikkka, what did you expect?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

again, 40% rate increase and now a $2500 fine if you don't pay Big Insurance money. Big Insurance now "has" to accept pre-existing conditions at a price they choose "high risk pool" etc.

lose your job>high blood pressure>can't afford a premium>lose insurance>fined by IRS>shit repo'd

this is Amerikkka, what did you expect?

thats demented shit---it ain't happening

you've been lissenin to glenn beck too much

high risk pools will be federally subsidized until the exchanges kick in in 2014. then nobody will be segregated. right now high risk gets only a coffin.

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/hi...health-reform/

low income people will get help to pay if they can't afford it.

crypto's dad & co. will pay for this through taxes

small businesses will get tax credits to pay for employees

there willl be other public programs to help those who can't pay.

actually, it's NOW that people go regularly bankrupt over medical bills.

but flotzo, you ain't rich, so don't worry. you have corporate insurance, you're not affected.

the mandate is $750 for those who refuse to get insurance of any kind, but taxpayers always end up paying for those-- small potatoes compared to the cost of cranial reconstruction.

here's how it will look like in the future:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr..._by_the_h.html


anyway, welcome to civilization, you dustbowl denizen.

ps- 40% increases: bullshit:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr..._raise_ra.html

learn from the smart jew and shush with the disinformation campaign.

unless it's jokes-- but this time i didn't get them.