[pbradley]

Yeah, we could somehow privatize the endowment of the arts as a survivor-esque reality television show.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

I can't wait for the art world to fall apart. Only then we'll be able to tell the true charlatans from those who have the balls to stay. And it will be great when the (art) world will finally realise that Brian Sewell was right all along, wether one likes his personality or not. There has been so much money wasted on the 'arts', so much useless talk, that it will be refreshing to see something that is not an urgent necessity for so many people taking a step back and fight its corner. YAY!

agreed! except for the part about brian sewell-- i dont know much about him.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

maybe in the UK, but the US's National Endowment for the arts funding is around $0.35 per person per year. that is MININAL spending.

well the good news is that NEA funding was increased by about 17 cents per person in the new stimulus bill. after years of being gutted by the republicunts, and after surviving persecution from the yahoo philistines, the 50 million allocation made it alive. hurray!

http://www.insidethearts.com/scannin...ty-ronish/810/

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I'm in favour of a limited and highly rationalised funding of the arts but I absolutely agree with you about much of the art world's sheer level of expectancy when it comes to receiving such funding. I know a number of people who occupy the title of 'artist' but who spend considerably more time securing grants than they do actually creating something in the studio. And the tantrums I've witnessed when one of their claims has been rejected are quite unbelievable. A lot of these people really do need to be asked a very straightforward question: what exactly is it that you do?

but the trouble with limited funding is that it is always going to be a matter of personal opinion what is worth spending money on so it won't ever be that rational, except to the person making the decisions.
anyway, it sounds like the "artists" you're talking about totally lack integrity, what's the difference between them and people who live off benefits rather than work?

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

art schools, at least whe I was involved in them and studying, did very little to prepare artists for the business end of the art world. TRhey prepared you for critiques, in focusing what you want to do, and in experimentation, but nothing at all about how to sell your art, or even how to get it seen. I graduated 1997, so I guess the art school's focus has changed maybe.

bt there wa sso much BULLSHIT as well.

i graduated two years ago and they did nothing to prepare us for the business end of art, probably because the tutors on my course had little to no experience of it. they did try to groom us in how to apply for funding though.

[Glice]

Maybe you're the future of art Herr & Bowels? Y'know, what with already being a jaded Eton fist-fan?

[Toilet & Bowels]

also, what do these artists do that they need funding for, unless they're doing some sort of grand scale sculpture or installation? i met a girl who recently got funding to do a piece of contemporary dance, what the fuck costs so much money that you would need for to dance that you can't pay for it out of what you earn in your day job (assumimg she has one)?!

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by Glice

Maybe you're the future of art Herr & Bowels? Y'know, what with already being a jaded Eton fist-fan?

I probably am, thanks for the advice.

Grand scale stuff is not the only problem. A good 70% of people who are going to grand scale plays, and give fundings for these things to happen, don't even remember the name of what they're watching. That's disgusting.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

also, what do these artists do that they need funding for, unless they're doing some sort of grand scale sculpture or installation? i met a girl who recently got funding to do a piece of contemporary dance, what the fuck costs so much money that you would need for to dance that you can't pay for it out of what you earn in your day job (assumimg she has one)?!

it is so you can make art without having to work 40-50 hours a week, exhausting energy on a Job, instead of yr artwork. it is like patronage

[Glice]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Grand scale stuff is not the only problem. A good 70% of people who are going to grand scale plays, and give fundings for these things to happen, don't even remember the name of what they're watching. That's disgusting.

Why is that disgusting? I go to quite a few plays and galleries, and more infrequently things like operas, I don't necessarily remember what I've watched or go because I'm a massive fan of the artist concerned. There's a lot of people - I suspect a majority of arts patrons - who go for the experience over anything.

I've possibly misunderstood what you're saying, so don't take this as me laying into you, but if people went to plays with the same sort of attitude as they do films, you'd overnight find a massive reduction in snobbery. It's a comparable experience, but only the very biggest plays make money (outside of London, I know London is very good) while a crap film will be watched by millions, in spite of everyone involved know it's crap (I'm thinking the Star Wars prequels).

EDIT - you were talking about public funding for twattery. I see. I can't really square that one, feel free to ignore the above].

Some of these people are related to somone who is acting in the play. Sometimes I've chatted to actors who didn't even know who directed the play they were in etc. It puts all people who make an effort in a bad light. I don't even know why I'm posting this 'cause I don't give a shit as much as I find it a disgusting thing, if it makes any sense, which it doesn't, since I'm posting about it.

[!@#$%!]

i've gotten a good chunk of grants in the past 2 years, one i got news about today, it's a nice wad of money, from a private source, though i've gotten government grants too, and why am i going to bitch about it? i'ts money i put to good use. i have a day job too-- fuckit, that's the reason i work weekends and i have no life, writing grants and looking for money and trying to squeeze moviemaking after a day full of poverty and sorrows. bring them on! (the dollars, that is).

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

i met a girl who recently got funding to do a piece of contemporary dance, what the fuck costs so much money that you would need for to dance that you can't pay for it out of what you earn in your day job (assumimg she has one)?!

Money to help survive when she is working on the project + venue hire + production expenses. The performing arts is a ridiculously expensive avenue to pursue and the funding allocated is very sparse. There are student production staff who will work via secondment for very little, but anyone with any experience does not come cheap, and then you have actual production costs, and tour costs if anyone ends up liking what you do.
It makes me want to cry when my theatrical stage manager partner complains about his wage and that he is underpaid. It is a regular argument. Standard wage includes accomodation and travel paid for when touring, weekly 'living allowance' (cash in hand of around an extra 33% of his weekly) + weekly wage. On tour this can work out to an overall value over the 3k mark per week. So think about this per person.. and your 'fudning' doesnt seem to go very far anymore.
If you're an actor and you have to actually 'do' anything while on stage other than your role (ie moving some props or set) then you are entitled to assistant stage manager bonuses also.. SHEESh.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Glice

Why is that disgusting? I go to quite a few plays and galleries, and more infrequently things like operas, I don't necessarily remember what I've watched or go because I'm a massive fan of the artist concerned. There's a lot of people - I suspect a majority of arts patrons - who go for the experience over anything.

I've possibly misunderstood what you're saying, so don't take this as me laying into you, but if people went to plays with the same sort of attitude as they do films, you'd overnight find a massive reduction in snobbery. It's a comparable experience, but only the very biggest plays make money (outside of London, I know London is very good) while a crap film will be watched by millions, in spite of everyone involved know it's crap (I'm thinking the Star Wars prequels).

Absolutely. I don't see anything wrong with someone attending a show who doesn't really remember it.. because I'm part of the arts community and need to keep the attitude of 'any money is good money' in order to survive. There is a lot of snobbery but most if it is fairly earned.. The theatrical arts are supported almost enitrely by patrons, so it's no surprise that they are ready to boast about this when given the chance.

Also to be honest anyone attending local theatre at the moment is doing more for their economy than someone going to the movies.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

where will tracy emin find her dough now?

!!!

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

they did try to groom us in how to apply for funding though.

Interesting. I just groom mine.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by phoenix

Money to help survive when she is working on the project + venue hire + production expenses.

fuck a venue, these people dance in the street and they are better than she will ever be

Originally Posted by phoenix

Absolutely. I don't see anything wrong with someone attending a show who doesn't really remember it.. because I'm part of the arts community and need to keep the attitude of 'any money is good money' in order to survive. There is a lot of snobbery but most if it is fairly earned.. The theatrical arts are supported almost enitrely by patrons, so it's no surprise that they are ready to boast about this when given the chance.

Also to be honest anyone attending local theatre at the moment is doing more for their economy than someone going to the movies.

I'm not even getting into a discussion about it 'cause you're talking nonsense, but I have it from someone in Melbourne that the art 'scene' there and the one in London are as similar to each other and are as nonsense as nonsense could be.

[Toilet & Bowels]

fuck the art scene, fuck it to death!

You're so full of opinions Toilet and Bowels, why do you not put them all into practice?