[acousticrock87]

Rob-
Exactly. When I see stuff like that I just have to throw my hands up and think, well what the fuck. Thanks, democracy.

And yeah, I have no fucking idea how he got re-elected. I don't even want to think about it. It definitely had nothing to do with California.

[terriblecanyons]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

well yeah everyone knows the cops in america suck and they'll harass you for no reason.
what's staggering is not that we elected bush in 2000, but that he was RE elected in 2004. i was struck dumb.

The American people didn't re-elect him, all of the dumbshits that make up the electoral vote did.
Which at the time were conveniently all republican.

[acousticrock87]

Actually, looking back, a big part of the reason was because Kerry was a douche, too.

[terriblecanyons]

Yeah, that too.
We were doomed from the start, from the lack of better candidates

[Sonic Youth 37]

The electoral vote is outdated.

[Cantankerous]

mccain vs obama?

no thanks.

if i write someone in my vote basically won't count. and i'm not up for picking the lesser of two assholes.


bilateral party system? suck a nut.

[acousticrock87]

I like Obama as he represents himself, and I have since before he was even in the running. But the mere fact that he made it this far means he's a liar and a terrible person. Other than that, I have no complaints.

[greedrex]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

only 39% of the 32% that actually vote

Bush is an idiot
but
fair play

[greedrex]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

mccain vs obama?

no thanks.

if i write someone in my vote basically won't count. and i'm not up for picking the lesser of two assholes.


bilateral party system? suck a nut.

how is Obama already an asshole?

[terriblecanyons]

Any assholery that Obama may show completely pales in comparison to the amount of assholery that McCain posesses.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

I agree, but I've mentioned doing at least half of those. It just doesn't feel like it helps much. Not to say I don't hope that stuff helps, or else I wouldn't do it, but for the most part internal apathy is my reaction to not seeing the fruits of any of it.

That's simply my defense for American apathy. In general, though, you're right. That's the attitude we should take.

if you do not believe in something, it does not exist and it is worth nothing. If you do not believe in the success of the moves you make, then they will not contribute at all to the movement. there is nothing insignificant if it is in a positive direction, every little step counts. we have all got to hold the faith.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

what gets me is the fucking trial withoput Jury where the judge let off the fucking PIG COPS that murdered that one guy in NYC leaving his bachelor party, 57 fucking rounds fired at three unarmed black men in a car by plainsclothes PIG cops, and the judge lets them off completely, based on what he says is a "procedural error" and not a human CRIME

this fucking country is going to shit so fast, and if you think that it cannot be changed, consider how fucking different our country is now and our reputation and standing in the world is now, to before george "retard monkey" Dubya Bush and his cronies and puppetmasters got into office.

you know, they have been doing shit like that since BEFORE George Bush I or II? You were aware of this right? in fact, this kind of shit has been happening since the fucking 17th century!

[greedrex]

Originally Posted by terriblecanyons

Any assholery that Obama may show completely pales in comparison to the amount of assholery that McCain posesses.

i validate this point of view
but we're just imagining what these two could be like or do IF......

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

if you do not believe in something, it does not exist and it is worth nothing. If you do not believe in the success of the moves you make, then they will not contribute at all to the movement. there is nothing insignificant if it is in a positive direction, every little step counts. we have all got to hold the faith.

you know, they have been doing shit like that since BEFORE George Bush I or II? You were aware of this right? in fact, this kind of shit has been happening since the fucking 17th century!

the USA did not exist in the 17th century

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the USA did not exist in the 17th century

bullshit, the first african slave was brought to Virginia in the 1620s, by the 1640s American slavery of Africans was firmly established, what you speak of is merely a technicality, but the slaves would have argued the there was indeed an America, and they were the slaves which built it. shit, the wall that Named "Wall Street" was built by a dozen African slaves to the dutch. just because it was not called "The United States of America" does not mean it was not america, nor does it mean it is not connected. the racist policies which this country was built upon are the same policies which resulted in the unfortunate incident which you were referring to above. i am a historian remember? everything is connected.

hence, it has been the same bullshit since the 17th century.

[acousticrock87]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

if you do not believe in something, it does not exist and it is worth nothing. If you do not believe in the success of the moves you make, then they will not contribute at all to the movement. there is nothing insignificant if it is in a positive direction, every little step counts. we have all got to hold the faith.

I've gone to Christian schools my whole life. I've believed, doubted, and back again more times than I can count and I've watched many friends and family do the same thing. I know how faith works in the good and the bad. I also know that there's almost always a real, good reason for disbelief and apathy--at least in the mind of the person. If anyone wants to believe something, they're going to need a real good reason, and that goes for anything. I don't have a single reason to believe in politics right now.

And you can make a difference when you don't really believe in what you're doing. It happens all the time. Especially in churches.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

I've gone to Christian schools my whole life. I've believed, doubted, and back again more times than I can count and I've watched many friends and family do the same thing. I know how faith works in the good and the bad. I also know that there's almost always a real, good reason for disbelief and apathy--at least in the mind of the person. If anyone wants to believe something, they're going to need a real good reason, and that goes for anything. I don't have a single reason to believe in politics right now.

And you can make a difference when you don't really believe in what you're doing. It happens all the time. Especially in churches.

while yr testimony is good, it is not relevant to the point I was making. You have to believe in the good you are doing, otherwise it will be no good. How can you help people if you do not even believe you can help to begin with? Any benefit becomes merely a technicality, a fluke, and accident even. however, if you believe in yrself and the moves you make, then they will be successful, even if it just at wiping yr own ass or putting on yr shoes!

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

bullshit, the first african slave was brought to Virginia in the 1620s, by the 1640s American slavery of Africans was firmly established, what you speak of is merely a technicality, but the slaves would have argued the there was indeed an America, and they were the slaves which built it. shit, the wall that Named "Wall Street" was built by a dozen African slaves to the dutch. just because it was not called "The United States of America" does not mean it was not america, nor does it mean it is not connected. the racist policies which this country was built upon are the same policies which resulted in the unfortunate incident which you were referring to above. i am a historian remember? everything is connected.

hence, it has been the same bullshit since the 17th century.

that would be ENGLAND dude.

before 1776 it was all ENGLAND, so lay the original blame on their asses.

remember that the limey fucks ruled the world after whuppin up on the spanish fops.

[acousticrock87]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

while yr testimony is good, it is not relevant to the point I was making. You have to believe in the good you are doing, otherwise it will be no good. How can you help people if you do not even believe you can help to begin with? Any benefit becomes merely a technicality, a fluke, and accident even. however, if you believe in yrself and the moves you make, then they will be successful, even if it just at wiping yr own ass or putting on yr shoes!

But there are people who wipe their ass and put on their shoes every day wanting to die. They live without believing in it. They get help without knowing why. They survive and find happiness. A little emo sounding, but there are so many people like that. Everyone knows people who try to attempt suicide but don't actually go through with it, and end up choosing to live despite their lack of belief in themselves. I feel like that's America's politcal climate right now.

But again, I'm not saying you're wrong. I think your attitude on change is 100% right. Seriously. It's just not as simple as lifting your chin. It's real hard to believe anything can change America, even if belief in change is what will change it. It's a dark tunnel.

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by greedrex

how is Obama already an asshole?

i don't care for either mccain or obama or their policies. i will never vote liberal because i'm not going to give the government permission to pickpocket hardworking people and give their money to people who don't deserve it/waste it. i will never vote conservatively because i don't like their stance on social issues. i most closely identify with a libertarian stance on things but i know that if i wrote someone in or voted for an independent my vote wouldn't count anyway.

[greedrex]

do you consider Obama is a "liberal"?
i thought he was a "Democrat"
?????
i'm shit @ politics
but i thought i got McCain as liberal = fact
no?
(hey you have a good opportunity to cut my throat just right now, DO IT, bad girl)