Originally Posted by atari 2600

It's also a fairly safe bet that most Factory denizens were extremely self-centered and more than a little delusional. Disdain for "outsiders" just flows naturally from that. Obviously, a degree of paranoia was present due to the drug use as well.

In turn, the people at The Factory were probably viewed as freaks by many blacks.

The Sixties saw the less-than-smooth birth of the Civil Rights Movement and the late sixties the rise of the Black Panthers. Andy may have avoided blacks for that reason. He didn't see violence as a vehicle for social change.

That's a good point. I don't really know if Andy Warhol was seriously racist, I mean, he did have dinner with and filmed Mohammed Ali, and was also good friends with Diana Ross, amongst others, didn't he?

The whole Black Panthers thing was what made me wonder a little too. The whole of The Factory was also populated by a number of political activists who I'm sure had ties with black activists in NYC, and still you are more likely to see a black media personality invited into The Factory in Warhol's 70's or 80's, rather than in the 60's.

Perhaps the drugs and a general air of pervading paranoia might have had something to do with it for real.

[demonrail666]

I think it's safe to say he was a snob, but not really a racist.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

The story I heard about him giving a painting to his nephew was that, while I think he eventually did, he was really reluctant to do so. At least that's the nephew's account.

According to his diaries he was intially reluctant and then more than happy to have him on board, or so i seem to remember from the last time that I read them, which is a while ago.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I think it's safe to say he was a snob, but not really a racist.

Those are more or less the same terms I was formulating in an effort to place things in a nutshell.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Those are more or less the same terms I was formulating in an effort to place things in a nutshell.

Haha! Fair enough. Although I think it's the conclusion most are ultimately pointing at on this thread, in a round-about way, anyway.

[atari 2600]

And everyone knows Warhol was an unapologetic money-worshipper.

He's a most American artist in so many ways.

[demonrail666]

 

He could have been a racist, American artist or not.

[atari 2600]

huh?

The Bronx foray probably reminded him of tough times in the Slovak slum areas of Pittsburgh. But instead of thinking how close he came having a lifelong lower standard of living himself and exhibiting more empathy, Warhol resigned himself to personal pride in having overcome so many obstacles. I'm sure there was a lot of childhood pain that he was reluctant to psychologically revisit.

Now if Henry had seen him in the Hugo Boss uniform duds maybe he wouldn't have gotten all that far in life...haha.

Wasn't, erm, Henry quite the alkie who regularly had arguments with him? Uh?

[atari 2600]

Sure, he was the drunk subject of some of the short films. It was Henry's money and curator influence that cemented many an artist's status. His Belgian Jewish family fled Nazi Europe. Geldzahler is a diamond family.

He was tight with most of the artists and not just some aloof curator of the Met. He and Andy started to not hang as much when Henry moved in with a boyfriend in the mid-60s.

[demonrail666]

I think this is a common trait of the self-made rich. The suburbs are filled with such people, building a wall of glitz and desplays of wealth to help distance themselves from their humble origins. In that sense, more than being just the most American of artists, he's the most post-War working class, too.

[demonrail666]

I think this is a common trait of the self-made rich. The suburbs are filled with such people, building a wall of glitz and desplays of wealth to help distance themselves from their humble origins. In that sense, more than being just the most American of artists, he's the most post-War working class, too.

The most racist of all are the working classes, that's a notorious fact. The self-made rich people are often thickens....different from those born into wealthy families. That explains. Hmm, plot thickens.....

[atari 2600]

Oh, and it was Henry that first advised Andy, in one of his first ventures into "fine art" and painting, to go with the poppy coke bottle and not the drippy one.

Well, alcoholics can't think straight, just like stoners, so I doubt we'll ever find out what REALLY happened. Unless, of course, tesla69 will come up with a credible theory, that is.

[Rob Instigator]

warhol was none of these things and all of these things.

he actuallY HATED people. justr hated them. he was a full on Misanthrope. he coped with people's treatment and hatred of his weird ass by NOT CARING. he gave up giving a flying fuck what anyone anywhere though early on, and described it as the single mopst freeing moment of his life, and one that was to guide him through his life.

I fully agree.

[atari 2600]

Yes, yes, he was in love with his tape recorder, his Bolex, and then Auricon movie cameras, wanted to be a machine rather than a human with emotions, etc.

I wonder how much John wrote of this, and how much Lou
(a lot of the lyrics come from Andy's own words via Pat Hackett, of course)

Faces and names, I wish they were the same
Faces and names only cause trouble for me
Faces and names

If we all looked the same and we all had the same name
I wouldn't be jealous of you or you jealous of me
Faces and names

I always fall in love with someone who looks
The way I wish that I could be
I'm always staring at someone who hurts
And the one they hurt is me

Faces and names, to me they're all the same
If I looked like you and you looked like me
There'd be less trouble you see

Faces and names, I wish they'd go away
I'd disappear into that wall and never talk
Talk, not talk

I wish I was a robot or a machine
Without a feeling or a thought
People who want to meet the name I have
Are always disappointed when they meet me

Faces and names, I wish they were the same
Faces and names only cause problems for me
Faces and names

I'd rather be a hole in the wall
Looking out on the other side
I'd rather look and listen, listen and not talk
To faces and names

If I had a breakdown when I was a kid
I lost my hair when I was young
If you dress older when you're not
As your really age you look the same

If we all looked the same, we wouldn't play these games
Me dressing for you and you dressing for me
Undressing for me

Faces and names, if they all were the same
You wouldn't be jealous of me or me jealous of you
Me jealous of you, me jealous of you

Your face and your name
Your face and your name
Faces and names
Faces and names

[floatingslowly]

and the colored girls go....

That song wasn't written by Warhol. Hmm, plot thickens.....