[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Originally Posted by ThePits

I know what you mean, I was raised on the edge of the largest Hassidic community outside of israel

The way they view anyone outside their own community, including "liberal" jews is quite scary

Fortunately they are the minority of jews

They could have taught Hitler a thing or two

Fortunately they are the minority of jews

Yeah, I sort of figured he was in the minority, because I haven't known any other jewish person to hold those sort of views.

[Everyneurotic]

jerks come in all sizes and colors.

i have more rights to demand a foxy jewish princess...not for a while, to be honest, though.

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

I just want a nice girl, I'm not really interested in what religion she is just as long as she believes in peace, love, understanding, and all that jazz.

[Everyneurotic]

you want an elvis costello fan?

[fugazifan]

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

Yeah, I sort of figured he was in the minority, because I haven't known any other jewish person to hold those sort of views.

im guessing that you have never been to israel eh?
a third of our country is religeous zealots, who belive that the word of god is the law and should be upheld with no regard to the law what so ever.
because of them (and their musil counterparts) we are in such a big pile of shit.
and because of them jews and israel are sometimes rightfully hated upon around the world.
fuckers.

oh btw, even if jews killed jesus, its been almost 2000 years, shouldnt we be moving past this point?
isnt all of catholothism based on his dying for our sins. so isnt it good that he died a martyr?
is it really worth it to still hold a grudge over who killed him?

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Originally Posted by fugazifan

oh btw, even if jews killed jesus, its been almost 2000 years, shouldnt we be moving past this point?

Well the Bible is a religious text, it can't be ommitted that jewish authorities turned in jesus to Pontius Pilate and demanded his execution, and that a group of citizens of Jerusalem chose to free Barrabas instead of Christ for passover.

I think the important thing is that people understand what it means theologically. When you say "the Jews killed Jesus," well, early Christians were Jews, so they were saying "we killed Jesus" in early Christian texts. Theologically- man is inherently sinful- Christ died in eternal payment for mankind's sins. So everyone killed Christ.

Originally Posted by fugazifan

isnt all of catholothism based on his dying for our sins. so isnt it good that he died a martyr?

In Christianity, Yes. But Catholoicism came after Christianity started, and is a sect.

Originally Posted by fugazifan

is it really worth it to still hold a grudge over who killed him?

No, not at all.



I think anti-semitism stems partially from misunderstanding the bible, starting with the beginning of Roman Catholocism. Also, Jews filled jobs that Christians in the middle ages thought were wrong. Jobs involving banking for example.

Because the Jews historically were bankers in the middle ages, the notion of the "money grubbing jew came about."

This isn't restricted to Christians, atheists and pagans developed the same anti-semitic stereotypes.

Remember at the beginning of Crime and Punishment, Raskolnikov, at this point an atheist, justifies his plan to murder and rob the old woman pawnbroker on the premise that she was a Jew. When he later turns to Christianity, he begins to repent for killing her.

Hitler himself was not a Christian but an occultist.


In Christian-Muslim-Jewish relations, it's important to point out that there is no theological standing for the hatred between the religions. They all teach tolerance, love, etc. It is just the nature of human beings to form irrational hatred to eachother. When Spain was taken over by Muslims, they were incredibly tolerant of Christians and Jews. They were taxed a little bit more, but weren't persecuted, being considered people of the book.

The strained relations don't have to do so much with core theological issues as much as hatreds that have developed over the last 1000 years dating back to the crusades- which had more economic and political motives than religious.

political leaders wanted access to chinese goods so they said "let's take back the holy land"

Sort of like how political leaders wanted to invade iraq and get rich off of oil so they said "look at what Saddam's doing to the kurds, oh, and now they've got WMD's"

It's an easy way to trick the masses.

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Originally Posted by fugazifan

im guessing that you have never been to israel eh?
a third of our country is religeous zealots, who belive that the word of god is the law and should be upheld with no regard to the law what so ever.
because of them (and their musil counterparts) we are in such a big pile of shit.
and because of them jews and israel are sometimes rightfully hated upon around the world.
fuckers.

I've only been to Turkey, and only for two days BTW. And from what I understand, Turkey isn't anything like the rest of the Middle East.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

you want an elvis costello fan?

what's so funny about that?

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Yeah I don't really get that.

Although I don't really know much about stereotypes. I only found out recently (in the past few years) that it was a stereotype that black people like fried chicken, hot sauce, and watermelon. And a stereotype that white people like turkey sandwiches with mayonaisse.

Which is a completely untrue stereotype for me. I'd take hot sauce any day of the week.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

I've only been to Turkey, and only for two days BTW. And from what I understand, Turkey isn't anything like the rest of the Middle East.

Well, thankfully it was peaceful when Sonic Youth visited recently too, but right now there's turmoil in southeast Turkey on the northern border of Iraq.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...LsoXx-FoI4GDaQ

Also, during the last days of the Ottoman Empire in the early 20th c., there was a civil war and it's now only recently come to light that the early Turkish government engaged in the genocide of 1.5 million Armenians. This makes the sad chapter in history the first holocaust, with The Third Reich's being the second with 6 million Jews being senselessly slain. Of course, the slaughter of the Native Americans was really a genocide as well, albeit a more conventional one, with some 12 million natives killed in battle, but they were not tortured or mass-executed in quite the same brutal fashion. And there is evidence that they would routinely torture Calvary troops that were captured. The warlike tribes (not all of them were, of course) loved scalping as well, both before and after the kill. Still, 12 million is twice as much as 6, no?

The Turks would tie the Armenians up with ropes in a long line and then shoot the first person who would drag everyone into rivers or ditches in many cases. They were also particularly fond of mutulating genitals and raping and killing women and children it seems. But don't trust my word, look it up for yourself.
http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Gen...n_genocide.htm

Many of Armenian descent are starting to demand reparations.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by fugazifan

im guessing that you have never been to israel eh?
a third of our country is religeous zealots, who belive that the word of god is the law and should be upheld with no regard to the law what so ever.
because of them (and their musil counterparts) we are in such a big pile of shit.
and because of them jews and israel are sometimes rightfully hated upon around the world.
fuckers.

oh btw, even if jews killed jesus, its been almost 2000 years, shouldnt we be moving past this point?
isnt all of catholothism based on his dying for our sins. so isnt it good that he died a martyr?
is it really worth it to still hold a grudge over who killed him?

Its good to see the voice of moderation

What I find curious is why the ultra orthodox are exempt from military service in Israel?

And yes, without the martyrdom of christ the whole basis for christianity falls apart

So by handing him over to the romans they did christianity a favour, they founded it

[fugazifan]

yee the uber orthos (ie haredim) are excempt from military service. but if you morally object to war and army service you either have to make up an illness or go to jail.
they also dont pay taxes and dont work in many cases.
many many israelis still hold neo nazi opinions about arabs.
its sickening.
there are no political leaders here that i have any faith in whatsoever.
many people here feel as i did.
if there were one left wing leader that would rise up and speak his mind and say what everybody else feels, without worrying about offending someone, then more people, even if they did not neceserrily agree with him, would have faith in him
(does this remind anyone of another country by any chance:-)
but ive gone a bit off topic.
anyhoo anti semitism is stupid. as is all racism.
why hate someone just becuase of his backround?
it just seems so childish and juvenile.
but who ever said that the human race was mature and smart?

[biggest muff]

So it goes.
Individuals are smart; mankind's a dumbass.

What're you gonna do? Put all the idiots up against a wall? Sometimes that feels like the easiest way out. I suppose it would be. But without education and dialogue and rational discussion one becomes just as intolerant and hateful as the bigoted and racist.

So it goes.