[knox]

1 - anarchy is not capitalism.
2 - thinking european governments have more control over people's lives than the us government is utterly delusional and misguided, and once again, none of the european countries are socialist.
3 - i would choose to go by the textbook used by the majority of the world, rather than a bias one with a clear agenda.
4 - No, they aren't. Socialism is one thing, public services something else, completely different.

We live in democratic capitalist countries. We pay taxes ideally to get public services that benefit all, these do not interfere with our right to private property or enterprise, so it is capitalism.

The idea of a system without government or taxes is anarchy which is something else.

These radical "free market" people have tried to shove that definition down people's throats, that everything public is socialism, but that is just bullshit. Maybe you should tell them social is one thing, socialism is something else, I'm guessing they don't know?

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by knox

weird. for most of us, taxes are taxes, nothing to do with state or federal.
and people on lower incomes do not pay income tax.
anyway
that should be enough to afford health care no?

Lower income families and individuals in America recieve earned income credits, meaning they get money back from thier tax returns that they did not pay into the system. They basically get between $2,000-$7,000 for free (depending on how many kids they have). Higher incomes have federal income taxes up to 35% . When they pay those taxes their money basically goes to the overwhelming number of citizens who are recieving the earned income credit. So for poor people tax season is awesome cause you get "free" money, but for the rich (and many middle class) it sucks, because they almost always owe the government more than they have paid in. So now the rich will be paying even more in to cover the healthcare. It is in a way evening out society by taking money fron those that have extra and giving it to those that have none.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by knox

sorry

which countries in europe are socialist

i must have skipped life

1989 marks the beginning of the end for socialism in Europe.

[knox]

Oh yeah, the society is evened out!
kudos
claps
etc.

[SONIC GAIL]

whatever that means. sure

[knox]

evening out society=socialism
oh no.

[SONIC GAIL]

I don't think it is socialism to even out society. We would already be considered socialist. This country has worked this way for quite some time. The income tax system has not greatly changed for quite sometime.

what is oh no. Sometime I don't get what you are trying to get across.

[knox]

yeah, your country is very EVEN.

clapclapclapclapclap

[knox]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

I don't think it is socialism to even out society. We would already be considered socialist. This country has worked this way for quite some time. The income tax system has not greatly changed for quite sometime.

what is oh no. Sometime I don't get what you are trying to get across.

yeah. sadface.

[SONIC GAIL]

Whatever you say Marla

[the ikara cult]

i love Americans, but what ive seen since this bill passed is almost enough for me to excuse some kind of extermination project

[the ikara cult]

its ppppppppppppppppppppppppppsoscialism!!!!

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

It seems there is a serious generation gap in this debate..

all the folks from our parents generation are pissed off, where as most of us are rather cool about it, even relieved.

I don't get it? What are they so affraid of? Have the misinformation jockeys and mass media spin doctors utterly succeeded? Why are our parents so pissed off that this HealthCare Reform passed? Didn't they realize our country needs reform? Did they realize they have been paying ridiculously high amounts of money for healthcare? Don't they understand that millions of uninsured Americans cost the taxpayers MORE money through expensive emergency room visits and so we as americans are paying for it one way or the other? SHIT!!
Even my folks are caught up in this shit and they are not exactly rightists


My mother was poor. We were poor. We didn't have any fucking health insurance for years until she got a better job.. she paid for hospital bills from my early childhood up until middle school, she just switched to an upgrade job as a University professor/coordinator and now she is paying more for her insurance than before, and yet she is pissed off at the reform bill passing? WTF?

My pops is a total lowlife scamming SSI/Disability for over a decade now, saying he is too crazy to work (ironically now he has become too crazy too work) and even he was pissed off about this, that motherfucker doesn't pay shit to anyone!


why is everyone so pissed off? I really don't get it..

It sucks to live in a time of serious social reform, all the assholes come out of the wood work.. this is the same climate around the Civil Rights Act.

 

"They see me rollin.. they hatin"

the rich and powerful are trying to stay rich and powerful. This bill isnt going to change anything significant, its been beset my concessions to the insurance companies all the way. Just the fact 30 million people will be insured now doesnt seem to matter, Thats the population of London. Ive been following this and the fact theres that many Americans who arent covered blows my mind, as does the opposition to anything that would change that...
Your politics... is fucked up!

[knox]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

Whatever you say Marla

second time you say that or am i having some dejavu

[knox]

also i do not think the population of london is 30 million???

[tesla69]

[quote=SONIC GAIL]So for poor people tax season is awesome cause you get "free" money, but for the rich (and many middle class) it sucks, because they almost always owe the government more than they have paid in. So now the rich will be paying even more in to cover the healthcare. [quote]

there is an argument the rich use more resources and impact society more by their activity

copied this from counterpunch toay
"A government that legislates increased profits and price deregulation for the nation’s largest capitalist corporations, while passing laws that require the entire population to purchase the products of those particular for-profit enterprises, is more often associated with fascism---particularly when the national economy is dependent upon military production and requires cuts in social welfare programs, public infrastructure maintenance, and workers’ real wages. "

[SONIC GAIL]

[quote=tesla69][quote=SONIC GAIL]So for poor people tax season is awesome cause you get "free" money, but for the rich (and many middle class) it sucks, because they almost always owe the government more than they have paid in. So now the rich will be paying even more in to cover the healthcare.

there is an argument the rich use more resources and impact society more by their activity

Yes, the more money they spend on unessicary items trickles into the pockets of waitresses, blue collar workers, retail workers ect.....so if they don't spend money than there is less oportunity for the other classes to find employment.