[sonicl]

From a musical point of view, what is the definition of drone?

Why do you not look on wikipedia just like everyone else on here does?

[farmhouse]

Originally Posted by sonicl

Thank you, Rob, for posting this, as it articulates something that I've been trying for the last ten minutes to work out how to say.

My only addition is to say that in order to make any sense, noise needs some kind of a context. Otherwise, to me anyway, it just comes across as deliberate irritant.

yes yes, the more abstract the artistic expression the more overt the philosophy needs to be . . . a point in art where the idea is far greater than the product . . .

. . . is the actual artwork greater because the idea is great? . . . . i don't know.

[fugazifan]

i like some good noise. but the problem is that the genre has become like punk. they found one way that works, and almost nobody leaves that fit form structure. i find noise musicians to be much more interesting when they mold different elements into the mix. for example, i saw a live eric copleand show, and what he does is really cool. he does loops of feeback and rythm ala' merzbow, but then adds these simple melodies on top that add a very beautiful contrast and make the listening experiance, even though it is loud as fuck, very much enjoyable.
that is also why i really like the whole "new weird america" scence, because they take elements of noise and drone and different sounds and mix them with a more folky groove. and it makes the music much more interesting.
i really like hair police and wolf eyes and a lot of other stuff though, even if it is more "noise".
but my favorite kind of noise is free improve.
peter brotzmann
evan parker
derek bailey
borbetomagus
zorn
etc

[sonicl]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Why do you not look on wikipedia just like everyone else on here does?

Because I have more respect for you than i do for wikipedia.

[atsonicpark]

Eh? "Let me elaborate", I guess: I'm referring to droney noisescapes... you know, feedback skronk drone tones that you can time stretch and pitch shift any number of ways and maybe add a few effects to or whatever and seriously manufacture the shit in 5 minutes and make the running length about 60. "DRONE" itself is a different style of music but that's obviously not what I'm referring to on this, a noise thread. I don't need to be schooled on what "drone" is. When someone is talking about droning, that doesn't necassarily refer to the musical genre known as "Drone".

A drone has rarely got any of the fragmented sounds that you would find on a noise piece of music, where the general idea that a musician wants to give to the listener is that of full-frontal assault, rather than creating a prolonged and trancey state of the mind, which is the main aim of drones. I'm much more a fan of repetitive sounds than I am of noise and that is because you're more likely to end up listening to something that can be both freeform and concise at the same time. Drones operate more on different tonalities, so that makes them more assimilable for the brain, whereas a lot of the time noise is a hit and run kinda thing, at least for me. Merzbow is particularly good at what he does because he manages to give his noise the right sophisticated licks, depending on the subject that he is making music for. Take all this as a generalization, though, as I'm sure there exceptions to the rule. Wolf Eyes have taken me by surprise sometimes because they upped the stakes in terms of how the chaos gets channeled into what's creating it in some really interesting ways. They also happen to crack your skull open in a more of rockist way, rather than stopping at being some random noise merchants.

[sonicl]

Thank you. I was going to make reference to seeing a Yellow Swans show, and wasn't sure whether genre-wise they are noise or drone, or indeed neither. I suspect that they're actually neither, but they do include elements of both in their music, which was why I was looking for a definition of drone.

[atsonicpark]

when I saw yellow swans, they were playing straight-up drone. however, they've explored MANY different styles -- ambient, electronic, industrial, noise, drone, etc. -- on their recordings. but they're typically just listed as a "noise" band because that's what most of their stuff is rooted in, at least.

[sonicl]

To the extent to which it's possible, though, I'd almost call them (Yellow Swans) pop-noise. They certainly don't come at things from a Throbbing Gristle angle.

"Yellow Swans: The acceptable face of noise"

[atsonicpark]

It's definitely the easiest listening of the 'popular' noise bands. And they're nice dudes too. Talked to Gabe for a while. He gave me a cherry point/yellow swans split, I gave him a Scissor Shock/Roxanne Jean Polise tape. Totally good guys, great set, Jamie from Xiu Xiu watched em and almost smiled (mostly brooded). Fun night.

[Everyneurotic]

by reading the answers, i don't want this to be interpreted as a fight cry, but a) i'm one of the very few people to listen to a lot of noise in here and b) most people haven't heard a lot of noise, something that can be tricky since, as noted, there's a lot of crap to get to the good stuff, but a lot of people seem to give up too easily. noise isn't for everyone, granted.

[sonicl]

Okay, a small challenge for the noise fans: Please post a beginner's guide to noise - a top ten noise recordings for the novice listener. A brief description of each would be appreciated too.

Thanks.

[Everyneurotic]

there was a thread of favorite noise albums awhile back that degenerated into "post covers of new age albums", but there's awesome mentiones there. not many descriptions though.

[Savage Clone]

I think Controlled Bleeding's "Body Samples" is pretty great (this is way before they got into doing dancey stuff), and I also think a lot of NON's early work has yet to be surpassed.
Just a nod to some of the older crowd.

[sonicl]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

there was a thread of favorite noise albums awhile back that degenerated into "post covers of new age albums", but there's awesome mentiones there. not many descriptions though.

Can't you make it a bit easier for me than that?

Pagan Muzak.

[Everyneurotic]

hmmm...i've also started to think about the "beginners" part of the beginners guide you mentioned...if someone came from listening to anything remotely discordant and then faced with an incapacitants record, they probably would not listen to a single sound without covering their ears.

most people begin listening to dissonant rock or free jazz and at some point get plugged to noise. i don't know how a harsh-harsher-harshest scenario can work; in my case, i liked noisy rock for a long time, then listened to other stuff that was kinda ok (wolf eyes, sightings) but it wasn't until i heard merzbow's veneorology that i really got excited about this, mainly because how opressive and 'unlistenable' it was.

therefore, i would recommend to anyone getting into noise to get straight to the harsh shit (masonna, merzbow, incapacitants, hiyokaidan, etc.).

one album, though, that's probably the best introduction and not because it's soft enough to be liked at first listen, it's hard as fuck, but at the same time it's well arranged and executed it's one of the best albums from start to finish. kevin drumm's sheer hellish miasma.

[Savage Clone]

Borbetomagus is free jazz that gets "straight to the harsh shit."

[Everyneurotic]

nice, a good crossover band, and citing the reason i love them.