[Sheriff Rhys Chatham]

There is a new deal/bill that allows these illegal immigrants to become citizens in much less time than seven years (however long it is). I cant remember much about it however. it was on cnn.

[atari 2600]

Yeah you got be at least 35 & a naturally born American citizen to be a candidate for President. California Governor Arnold Schwartzennegger would like to see all that changed.

I guess you can't write Rob in after all, !@#$%!.

I'm gonna reprise this part that I went back & bolded in the original post:
The truth is that rights are, always have been & most probably always will be a social construct, which means that the rights that we have that shouldn't ever be able to be taken away are actually really just granted to us under certain conditions. If that seems unfair, then I suggest you follow my applicable suggestion that I repeatedly offer forth & start spreading the word about passing a consitutional amendment to end all repeat terms of office in this country to ever possibly see Human Rights Justice really done one day.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Yeah you got be at least 35 & a naturally born American citizen to be President.

I guess you can't write Rob in after all, !@#$%!.

nope. im a beaner myself

[SonikJesus]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Rhys Chatham

I never once said I want them out of the country. What I said was that its rediculous how they come to our country illegally and demand respect and rights when they're not even citizens. Ill go to friggen France and demand everyone to speack english, hows that.

So just cause people aren't citizens they don't have rights? Just because on a piece of paper it says American, you have more rights than another human being? That's stupid. People who were born citizen's here don't even appreciate what they have. It's easy for them to say "Get rid of immigrants."

I don't get why everyone complains that they take away US jobs. So the fuck what? Everybody needs a job. Just because you have this intangible label that says you're American, it doesn't mean you need the job more. Go get a job somewhere else. Everybody needs jobs.

[atari 2600]

& one more time:

The truth is that rights are, always have been & most probably always will be a social construct, which means that the rights that we have that shouldn't ever be able to be taken away are actually really just granted to us under certain conditions. If that seems unfair, then I suggest you follow my applicable suggestion that I repeatedly offer forth & start spreading the word about passing a constitutional amendment to end all repeat terms of office in this country to ever possibly see Human Rights Justice really done one day.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

the rights that we have that shouldn't ever be able to be taken away are actually really just granted to us under certain conditions.

ah, but i disagree with you in this point: they were not granted-- they were taken. it took a war against the british empire (two wars actually: 1812 is often forgotten) to conquer the rights under the constitution. it took a civil war (though i am well aware abolition was not its original cause) to end slavery. it took a lot of social unrest to ripen the fruits of abolition. etc. etc. the social construct we call rights is always the result of a conquest-- the people taking power away from the elite.

[atari 2600]

& that's exactly what we the people need to do again & precisely why we need a constitutional amendment to end repeat terms of office. It would get to the nitty-gritty of the inherent fundamental reason why corruption exists within the American political system which no longer is truly representational. Make living history, people...grass-roots initiatives have to start somewhere. Purposefully get into political conversations or internet discussions & spread the word. Don't be left screaming at a wall. There is a solution, & this is it. It is revolutionary, but revolutionary within the system. & there's just one other thing I want to get off my chest: The concept of Anarchy is for a bunch of poseur mumblers-under-breath basement dwellers. In fact, Anarchy would only make human rights conditions everywhere a whole heaping helping hell of a lot worse. People that seriously espouse anarchy as a vaild way to solve social woes are ignorant, apathetic & decidely morally evil.

[Sheriff Rhys Chatham]

Originally Posted by SonikJesus

So just cause people aren't citizens they don't have rights? Just because on a piece of paper it says American, you have more rights than another human being? That's stupid. People who were born citizen's here don't even appreciate what they have. It's easy for them to say "Get rid of immigrants."

I don't get why everyone complains that they take away US jobs. So the fuck what? Everybody needs a job. Just because you have this intangible label that says you're American, it doesn't mean you need the job more. Go get a job somewhere else. Everybody needs jobs.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!

[atari 2600]

try to say it 5-10 times fast

Originally Posted by atari 2600

...a whole heaping helping hell of a lot worse.

It's a tongue twister

& I'm not sure if it's good English exactly.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by ricechex

shit, u always say SY are snobby white suburbia. if i only had a nickel for every time u said that. haha. but that's yr thing,man. u want so badly to see it that way, b/c it makes u the original, the smarter lone rebel round here that sees something none of us braindead pot smoking liberals sees. ur fighting the pretentious SY liberals,man. "america is the best, we should all be thankful, and stop whining"..blah, blah, we got it. ur a genius. by the way, bush has broken 750 laws, and i'm whining..

As far as SY fans being majority white suburban kids...care to do a poll? I don't even think you have an accurate understanding of what exactly a "liberal" really is. Better go back to school and come back later. I'll be here giving lessons.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings. If you hate living in America, why don't you let someone else who wants to live here take your place. Simple as that.

As far as Bush is concerned, I wouldn't impeach him.

I'd charge him with treason because he's done nothing but fuck up the country.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

How are these people a burden to our society? How?
the party line that "illegal immigrants do not pay taxes" is a load of shit
most peope that earn under 30 thou a year do not pay taxes. they get their taxes refunded to them. the immihgrants and laborers make below that amount.
now, while they do not file income tax, that is but one teeeny tiny boit of the taxes collected from everyone in america. immigrants pay sales taxes, taxes on gasoline, etc etc. THEY PAY TAXES, so anyone claiming the immigrants are freeloaders is a fucking lying asshole.

these people want to WORK. they want to be good citizens. most are very devoutly religious. most are good honest poeple (just like all people). what's the fucking problem? if latin americ was full od white people and if mexico was full of white people, there would be no problem.
for decades, immigration, ILLEGAL immigratrion from canada was completely ignored, cuz they are white and blend in.

think about it.

these people protesting want to be americans and love america more than the fucking ungrateful citizens of the USA.

That was beautiful, Cheeto! Can I get an "Amen" for Brother Cheeto?

[krastian]

Amen.

[Proud Marie]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Rhys Chatham

I wouldnt care if these illegal imigrants were white christian nuns who never had the though of evil come across their minds. Dont demand respect and rights from a place you dont "LEGALLY" belong.

the right of petition belongs to all people, not just citizens. thats like saying illegal immigrants dont have freedom of speech or religion either.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

I'm not against immigration. Only a fool would be. I acknowledge & fervently & firmly believe that immigration, i.e. the melting pot, is what helped make this country great. But, like the Sheriff alluded, it should be done legally. The bureaucracy for gaining legal citizenship should be streamlined & made altogether more accessible for those that would like to call America home, but in this post 9/11 day & age that's gonna be a tough nut to crack.

If a group of wanted criminals decide to form a union & protest what would they expect to happen to them? I know it's a sort of unfair comparison, but illegal immigrants really shouldn't expect anything more than basic human rights. They are not citizens. If the corporate pigs were not benefiting from illegal mexican workers being here in America then you better believe that the National Guard would be called out & the protesters would be forced by tank escort to march right back to Mexico. So are illegal immigrants hurting America? Yes, in these exponentiating numbers, yes they are; that shouldn't be too tough to figure out. There's many a rural town where the plant or whatever hires only illegal immigrants now & this is one reason why Bush has had negative job growth. Then again, it's also ultimately the responsibility of Bush as the head of the executive branch of government & his appointed Attorney General to enforce the RICO law. Gaining national attention lately was a woman in Dalton (the carpet capital of the world as it's called in Georgia) that could not get a job without being able to speak fluent spanish. That's why the regulations on immigration are there in the first place. It seems all of you that jumped on Rhys are wearing some nice rose-colored glasses about the whole issue. Turning our heads the other way at illegal immigration at these levels only increases societal problems. The easiest to discuss is the cut & dried case of labor & employment issues. Illegal immigrants contribute to a culture of indentured servitude & do a disservice to themselves & their own potential by not becoming legal American citizens first. By being illegal aliens, they minimize their abilty to achieve prosperity by lawful means & they subjugate themselves to any number of employer labor abuses. The most obvious of which is that cannot expect to be guarranteed regular hours, overtime pay & a minimum wage.

It is the promise of free & easy widespread employment (even without citizenship) that has lured immigrants to come to America to seek prosperity. This post will not win me a lot of support, because the truth rarely does. In the post, I am only addressing what can be done for the illegal immigrants that work jobs for which they should be required to have actual documentation instead of the fake documentation that they provide; there are always gonna be illegal immigrants in this country that work either fringe, odd or private jobs that do not require them to have documentation. That's just the way it is & the way it will always be & that's fine by me because it isn't like there is an abundance of these types of jobs. What I aim to express concerns jobs with major companies that have over 25 employees. In 1996, the RICO racketeering act was updated to include employers that hire illegal immigrants. It is their duty by law to adhere to this very serious federal mandate. It is the executive branch of the government with the President of the United States at its head that is responsible for enforcing the laws in this country. You do the math. It is the responsibility of the companies that are illegally hiring the illegal immigrants to cease & desist & it is also the responsibility of the U.S. Government to enforce the law of the United States. The companies make a candyass bullshit complaint that they are given faulty information & that the federal government should provide for the employment verification process to assure the employer that the applicant's information is legitimate.

But what actually will become of this whole blown-up issue? Absolutely nothing. What really will become a large problem sometime in the near future will get swept under the rug. The immigrants that have been here illegally for a certain amount of time will be allowed to become naturalized. The length of time for naturalization will be shortened probably (only increasing the same problem) & there will be a lot of political hot air puffed about concerning "getting tougher" on immigration law, but things will more or less stay the same & the illegal immigrant & mexican population of the United States will continue to balloon until the problems increase & reach yet another critical level.

First, this should not be an economical issue, it should not be a naturalization issue...it should be a HUMAN RIGHTS issue. People come here for a better life for their families and themselves. It's easy to point fingers and put down the idea of coming to the country illegally while sitting at a posh computer with an upbringing much better off than majority(if not all) illegal immigrants who came into this country. It's alot different when you are the one trying to survive.

Second, comparing illegal immigrants to "criminals" because they broke the law kinda worries me about you. It tells me that you really don't know as much about other cultures as you think you may know, and that you really lack compassion and sympathy. But, it doesn't surprise me. Alot of SY fans are the same way.

Saying illegal immigrants don't deserve anything more than "basic human rights" is pretty unreasonable even though they do pay taxes(yes, I know it doesn't compare to the federal taxes, so no need to even jump here).

Reading your statement really gives the impression that you have not even considered trying to understand what it is to be an illegal immigrant. People don't come here illegally unless it's for a very good reason, like surviving. Most come here for the social services & benefits(healthcare & clinics) that are not available in their homeland or that their previous homelands didn't provide adequate social services(healthcare, clinics, etc.). So far, what I've gathered from your statement was that illegal immigrants come here for hopes of "better job opportunity to make more money". Not once did you mention healthcare, education, and social services.

Do you think it's "easy" living as an illegal immigrant? How many times have you had to supply a SS#, proof of residency when you've needed something??? Until you know an illegal immigrant and how they live, maybe you should stop with the assumption that living here illegally is "fine and dandy". They probably live with the fear of being deported, caught on a daily basis. I hate to use this comparison, but have you ever lied and felt guilty or did something wrong that you knew you could get in trouble for? Well they live with that feeling every day.

While it is the Gov'ts responsibility to uphold the law, it is what it is. It's not like "nobody's doing illegal drugs" in this country. Is illegal immigration a problem to America? I think it's a problem America is well-equipt to deal with. Besides, spending the money rounding up illegal families and deporting them would cost way too much money, especially if it's that easy to just break back into the country.

It is what it is. I do think it sets a precidence with "following the law", but then again, isn't the Constitution a bit "outdated" as well? I don't think it's going to discourage many people from becoming a citizen the "legal" way because of the fact that those who become American Citizens are already much better off than those who come into the US illegally, so they can afford the "4 year plan". Most illegal immigrants can't afford to wait that long because they just don't have the money. Remember: you have to live here for 4 years and have some kind of steady employment or education. That costs money...money most illegal immigrants do not have before entering this country illegally.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Rhys Chatham

I never once said I want them out of the country. What I said was that its rediculous how they come to our country illegally and demand respect and rights when they're not even citizens. Ill go to friggen France and demand everyone to speack english, hows that.

edit: every thing atari says.

Need a map?

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Rhys Chatham

everytime the US has some terrible foreign policy disaster on it's hands, it rounds up the usual suspects, imigrants, atheists, immoral people, homosexuals, etc.

i guess I fall in there.
I also realise this country was built by immigrants, atleast starting in the 1800's.
But it must be mentioned as well that they are illegal immigrants. If they were given the right to have all equal rights then why would they be illegal immigrants.

1800's?

Go back to school.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by jon boy

your an asshole you know that?

i saw a big immigration march yesterday in chicago. they were so passionate about it, maybe you could be passionate about not being a cunt?

chicago is quite a boring place as well.

No need to call names...it makes you look like your 12 years old. I'm sure you can get your point across without the names. Try to act a little more mature than this. Alot is being said on this thread and we don't need little kids mucking it up.

[HaydenAsche]

Originally Posted by khchris(original)

No need to call names...it makes you look like your 12 years old. I'm sure you can get your point across without the names. Try to act a little more mature than this. Alot is being said on this thread and we don't need little kids mucking it up.

Both of you using 'your' instead of 'you're' makes you look about 12 years old. That is all. Continue bickering.

[Sheriff Rhys Chatham]

Originally Posted by khchris(original)

1800's?

Go back to school.

If your considering th epilgrims immigrants than Ill say Im wrong. I remember some guy saying he felt the US should quarintine tis self from all other nations, oh yeah, George washington.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

As a registered & legal voter, you can write Rob in as a candidate for President.

Illegal immigrants cannot vote. They have no incentive or even right to be part of the political process. I believe I've just illustrated yet another way that being illegal is not only a disservice to the illegal alien, but also to society as a whole. If anyone sees racial bias in any of my posts on this subject then it is quite likely they that have some issues with racism, because I'm merely stating the objective truth of the matter in a layman's fashion.

During the last century, my mother's family came from Italy & my father's from Ireland.

I think you're taking the issue of illegal immigration for the sake of your parents. It's great that your parents were able to come from other countries, but the fact of the matter is that your parents were better off than the illegal immigrants when they came to the country.

I don't see a "racial bias". What I see is a guy who feels very passionate about the process of becoming an American the "legal" way because his parents when through the process. I used to feel the same way about my parents(from Japan). But, as I got older, I've grown to accept the fact that maybe the law just doesn't always add up and that there are exceptions to the rule, like having no money with 3 kids and no healthcare living in Mexico.

I respect your stance, but all I can maybe ask is that you really try to look at it from an "illegal immigrant's" point of view because so far, I don't think you've shown any kind of compassion or sympathy for them even if they broke the law.

I'm curious to know how you feel about the judicial system, "prisons & prisoner's rights" to be specific. Because if you apply your way of thinking to the problems of prisons, then you really lack alot of compassion for the human race.