[!@#$%!]

for me who always loved prog the whole development of “math” rock was a pleasant one in spite of the shit name. love the percussion. noise was good too while it lasted. post-rock, sure, an innovation, but it’s often not-rock.

i prefer metal that is not about, oh, satan, and death, and depression. that shit brings bad luck! ha ha ha ha.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i prefer metal that is not about, oh, satan, and death, and depression. that shit brings bad luck! ha ha ha ha.

Well, Black Metal is probably my favourite sub-genre of Metal, and about the only area of broadly-speaking 'Rock' music I try to keep up with. BM's underground is probably the nearest thing Metal has ever had to an actual avant-garde. Although, as you say about some Post-Rock, does stuff like this even really qualify as Metal, never mind Rock?

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

i like KoЯn

[demonrail666]

that sounds like something someone would say as the 1st step in a 12 step programme

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Well, Black Metal is probably my favourite sub-genre of Metal, and about the only area of broadly-speaking 'Rock' music I try to keep up with. BM's underground is probably the nearest thing Metal has ever had to an actual avant-garde. Although, as you say about some Post-Rock, does stuff like this even really qualify as Metal, never mind Rock?

oh yeah i know you’re broadly into horror so this is not surprising. i’d like it more if it was tongue in cheek or if i could mute the vocals.

and yeah, that track sounds like... church music, ha ha ha

[_tunic_]

Sonic Youth - Pacific Coast Highway

because it's on fire

[Severian]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Someone mentioned Agents of Misfortune to me in relation to the whole Ascension thing, but until youtube I had no way of hearing them. The similarities, especially live, are genuinely uncanny.

More generally, I'd say Metal's been the only area of Rock music that has really evolved in any meaningful way in decades. I'm struggling to think of anything really new or interesting to have come out of the indie/alt rock scene since, christ, i dunno, Twin Infinitives? And that was nearly 30 years ago!!

Uh. Disagree about metal being the only thing that’s evolved. From my (albeit limited) perspective. It hasn’t so much evolved as it has dabbled in other existing genres, like shoegaze (Deafheaven), post-rock, electronic (that amazing album The Body did with Haxan Cloak, “I Shall Die Here”) etc.
In some ways the genre has shunned evolution more than any other. Like, it’s only now “Ok” (and debatably) for a black metal band to have a female singer.

Lame.

Anyway, I think indie rock has certainly changed and I think Royal Trux is a very strange band on which to pin the supposed last evolution of the genre. I mean, Twin Infinitives came out in, what, ‘90? That was pre-Loveless for christ’s sake! Pre-Nevermind, pre-Lonesome Crowded West, Slanted & Enchanted, Soft Bulltin, Aeroplane, Leaves Turn Inside You, pre-Beck (for what it’s worth), pre-fucking everything that became known as “indie,” basically.
You’re not even going to give *Stereolab* any credit? What about Radiohead (not indie, but basically wrote ½ the indie how-to manual for the ‘00s)... and what about those sweet couple years when Animal Collective, after learning to love Black Dice (Black Dice!) took their campfire folk and threw it in the furnace with ambient, hip-hop and minimalist noise and made “Feels?” That wasn’t novel? Felt novel. Even if Animal Collective is terrible now, which they are.

I do think indie kind of merged with hip hop, which led to one half of it drifting off into poppier, bouncier territory and the other half shunning pop bounce for Springsteenisms, but in many ways the indie aesthetic is still alive in Frank Ocean and Kids See Ghosts and (yes) Kanye.. big time.

So, yes, indie sucks and is stagnant and terrible right now with very few exceptions all of which are greatly indebted to older artists, but if you really thin 1990 was he last gasp for indie, I don’t know what to tell you other than that you’re off by 25 years.

As for Metal... I dunno man. Prove it. I think there are about 10 metal bands that have actively moved the genre forward, and even those groups are rooted in the past in one or more ways.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

Uh. Disagree about metal being the only thing that’s evolved. From my (albeit limited) perspective. It hasn’t so much evolved as it has dabbled in other existing genres, like shoegaze (Deafheaven), post-rock, electronic (that amazing album The Body did with Haxan Cloak, “I Shall Die Here”) etc.
In some ways the genre has shunned evolution more than any other. Like, it’s only now “Ok” (and debatably) for a black metal band to have a female singer.

Lame.

Anyway, I think indie rock has certainly changed and I think Royal Trux is a very strange band on which to pin the supposed last evolution of the genre. I mean, Twin Infinitives came out in, what, ‘90? That was pre-Loveless for christ’s sake! Pre-Nevermind, pre-Lonesome Crowded West, Slanted & Enchanted, Soft Bulltin, Aeroplane, Leaves Turn Inside You, pre-Beck (for what it’s worth), pre-fucking everything that became known as “indie,” basically.
You’re not even going to give *Stereolab* any credit? What about Radiohead (not indie, but basically wrote ½ the indie how-to manual for the ‘00s)... and what about those sweet couple years when Animal Collective, after learning to love Black Dice (Black Dice!) took their campfire folk and threw it in the furnace with ambient, hip-hop and minimalist noise and made “Feels?” That wasn’t novel? Felt novel. Even if Animal Collective is terrible now, which they are.

I do think indie kind of merged with hip hop, which led to one half of it drifting off into poppier, bouncier territory and the other half shunning pop bounce for Springsteenisms, but in many ways the indie aesthetic is still alive in Frank Ocean and Kids See Ghosts and (yes) Kanye.. big time.

So, yes, indie sucks and is stagnant and terrible right now with very few exceptions all of which are greatly indebted to older artists, but if you really thin 1990 was he last gasp for indie, I don’t know what to tell you other than that you’re off by 25 years.

As for Metal... I dunno man. Prove it. I think there are about 10 metal bands that have actively moved the genre forward, and even those groups are rooted in the past in one or more ways.

o man i wish you were a better reader because you go off on nonsequiturs like that (e.g. “blue velvet”)

he’s not talking about indie music innovations

he’s talking about *rock* in particular (a disappearing genre)

animal collective or stereolab or kanye... are not rock

a lot of noise and experimental etc, ceased to be rock long ago

(well even that ambient metal actually...)

how does that tears eliot line go...

“That is not what I meant at all. That is not it, at all.”

breathe, friend, breathe... deep breath... read again... ok.

[Savage Clone]

Try Oranssi Pazuzu if you think metal hasn't evolved beyond bullshit like Deafheaven.

[demonrail666]

I said in a follow-up post that 1990 was a bit ridiculous a cut-off point, and my original post was definitely too black and white. Although I do still believe Metal has been the most interesting area of Rock music for about the last 15-20 years.

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

Try Oranssi Pazuzu if you think metal hasn't evolved beyond bullshit like Deafheaven.

Great example.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

Try Oranssi Pazuzu if you think metal hasn't evolved beyond bullshit like Deafheaven.

oh, i went and listend and liked it a lot... at first

by the third song i wanted a mute button for the vocals though...

i hear you on the yearning for the return of the piercing tenor

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I said in a follow-up post that 1990 was a bit ridiculous a cut-off point, and my original post was definitely too black and white. Although I do still believe Metal has been the most interesting area of Rock music for about the last 15-20 years.



Great example.

hey, where is that jootoob you posted earlier? that was great! ended up getting sidetracked by a 30’ jordan peterson video, and lost it

ps- peterson has some ok things, he’s very wrong in others, but the comments, lololol, a buncha knuckle draggers. i wonder if he realizes what followers he’s getting. ok enough peterson.where is that ego ego chaos chaos thing??

[demonrail666]

You mean convulsing?

I was trying to merge the posts and lost bits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW42-tMm5gs

Or could've been Chaos Echoes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGtBZ6nDnl4

[!@#$%!]

yeeeeeeeeees.

chaos echoes

ty

[Savage Clone]

Try track five on Värähtelijä and you might enjoy. Track two also has some elements of later swans in it if I do say so.

[Savage Clone]

Tripykon and Obsequiae also come with my highest recommendations. Panoptikon too. Deathspell Omega no question. Striborg I love, and it was cool to see him mentioned earlier. Definitely polarizing in the metal scene but I enjoy it a lot.

[Savage Clone]

And forgive me for saying so, but I really can't stand seeing people who have no idea about Metal talking about whether or not metal pushes boundaries. Metal is pretty much only concerned with pushing boundaries, when it isn't only concerned with staying strictly within established tropes. When it pushes the envelope it pushes hard. If you dig deep you'll know. If you're a tourist you'll never see it.

[demonrail666]

Striborg is a big fave of mine. Although I can't pretend to like his new album, Blackwave. God knows what he was thinking with that. I Just hope it's a one-off experiment rather than the start of a whole new direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cak8bYlcrs

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Striborg is a big fave of mine. Although I can't pretend to like his new album, Blackwave. God knows what he was thinking with that. I Just hope it's a one-off experiment rather than the start of a whole new direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cak8bYlcrs

O_o

eta:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FC1C4g8YOA4

XD XD XD

[demonrail666]

Haha. I credit him with wanting to do more than just an 80s pastiche although it could be dismissed as just that - with the obligatory depressive BM tones mixed in.

He's a really interesting guy and features in the amazing short documentary OMM about the One Man Band thing in underground BM. That documentary had a massive impact on me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cijtsVwz3WM

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

And forgive me for saying so, but I really can't stand seeing people who have no idea about Metal talking about whether or not metal pushes boundaries. Metal is pretty much only concerned with pushing boundaries, when it isn't only concerned with staying strictly within established tropes. When it pushes the envelope it pushes hard. If you dig deep you'll know. If you're a tourist you'll never see it.

Ok, help me out then.

I know *a bit* about metal, but you’re right. Not a ton. Happy with classic thrash stuff and Deafheaven and the Body and Thou. But educate me! I’m down.