[Rob Instigator]

I never brought up al quaeda or terror or militant positions. I stated that the main reason for religions to exist is to gain converts, to change minds.

Otherwise they are pointless social clubs.

[Rob Instigator]

and the church is ussually the richest, most opolitically connected organization there is in any country.

That is why the US Constitution was written in a secular manner, with no basis on church doctrine, and the intrinsic disconnection of the government from the religions that try to take government over.

[Rob Instigator]

so anytime I see some fuck claim that the founding fathers created the USA and wrote the constitution on Christian principles, it MAKES ME FUCKING ENRAGED!!!!!

[dead_battery]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hip Priest again.


Whatever you say. Nazism was a political ideology which was actually veiled in esoteric pagan religious imagery, all I implied was that Al-Qaeda is the same kind of thing whereas Rob's assertion was that religion is the primary or sole motivation. I beg to differ. You can't negate political (power) and economic (money) influences behind ALL human behavior, especially that which is radical or violent.

Even the Crusades were largely a geopolitical and financial matter, hence why on the Third Crusade they skipped Jerusalem and the Muslims altogether and instead sacked their political rival, Byzantium. What was the Inquisition? A political response and retaliation to the political and economic threat of Protestantism. Those are my opinions. You don't have to rudely call me a liar or disingenuous simply because you disagree with my analysis.

what you have stated are not opinions but historical facts, which i would not argue with. however your pretension that religion is somehow separate from these endeavours and doesn't actively encourage them is totally disingenuous. you can play the game of 'but that's not REAL religion' all you want but it's simply dishonest. you can't disentangle the economic and the political from the religious. in fact it strikes me that doing so reduces religion to nothing more than a total impotent individualistic lifestyle accessory. which you probably don't have a problem with.

your supposed innocent space wherein true, inherently peaceful and benevolent religion is practiced is a total sham. you know this but it doesn't fit into your frankly self aggrandizing preaching of an archaic and increasingly obsolete primitive fantasy.

also, i don't disagree with anything hip priest said.

[evollove]

Here's a story:

I recently came into a bunch of food. I wanted to donate it. I heard the Salvation Army refuses to hire homosexuals, since they are religiously affiliated, so I said fuck that and went looking for another place.

All my other options were religious. Admittedly, I didn't do a week's-long investigation; I just went through the phone book because I wanted to get rid of the stuff. But I didn't find any place to accept a bunch of food that wasn't somehow affiliated with a religion, one way or another. (I ended up giving it to the Jews.)

Rob's right in a lot of ways. That is to say, I share his prejudice.

But what's up Seculars? Why don't I ever run across The Altruistic Atheists Food Bank?

[Rob Instigator]

There is a secular Food Bank in Houston, a HUGE one, the biggest source of food for the other shelters (homeless/women's/family) in the Houston area.

Churches have the best infrastructure to enact charities. No tax people looking over their shoulder, no regulation. secular charities have to conform to a strictt set of criteria that make it difficult to maintain.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I am great. Shit's just grating to me.

that's good to know. really. i thought you were going through difficult shit and people were offering you empty "prayers". so it's good to know you're alright.

as for the rest of what you say: yes, yes, yes.

funny thing i read once-- the ancient romans despised christians because they put their own personal salvation above the interests of rome. i agree--what petty fuckers!

Originally Posted by evollove

But what's up Seculars? Why don't I ever run across The Altruistic Atheists Food Bank?

i have a similar problem with goodwill, the salvation army, etc. particularly the fucking salvation army (have you ever read dh lawrence's "apocalypse"? a bit of a rabid antisemitic tract, slightly demented, but nevertheless highly entertaining.) anyway. the salvation fuckin army. or was is orwell who wrote about them? he too i think, in down & out in paris and london, didn't he?.

ANYWAY, secular-- there are places! a bunch in my area. the hippie food coop sponsors all sort of volunteer stuff too. toss that old phone book and google.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I never brought up al quaeda or terror or militant positions. I stated that the main reason for religions to exist is to gain converts, to change minds.

Otherwise they are pointless social clubs.

And considering just how many millions of people every day serve in hospitals, jails, schools, community centers, food kitchens, shelters, and all kinds of public service either directly organized by or individually motivated by religion/faith perhaps you need to reevaluate your conclusions about how religion isn't exactly changing peoples' minds for the better or how they are pointless?

[dead_battery]

i don't believe that you would accept that answer from me, or that you even accept it yourself. you know exactly which parts of the bible and koran i am referring to. you're deliberately avoiding mentioning them.

talking about blowing up abortion clinics and invading is the most transparent obfuscation when you know very well what violence and evil the bible does promote.

extremists haven't hijacked the narrative, they're following through on it.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

what you have stated are not opinions but historical facts, which i would not argue with. however your pretension that religion is somehow separate from these endeavours and doesn't actively encourage them is totally disingenuous. you can play the game of 'but that's not REAL religion' all you want but it's simply dishonest. you can't disentangle the economic and the political from the religious. in fact it strikes me that doing so reduces religion to nothing more than a total impotent individualistic lifestyle accessory. which you probably don't have a problem with.

your supposed innocent space wherein true, inherently peaceful and benevolent religion is practiced is a total sham. you know this but it doesn't fit into your frankly self aggrandizing preaching of an archaic and increasingly obsolete primitive fantasy.

also, i don't disagree with anything hip priest said.

A sham, and I know it? Real deep there. Again, calling people liars and disingenuous is counter-productive. There is nowhere in the Bible or the Quran, neither in the legitimately recognized literary bodies of Christian or Islamic "tradition" which supports blowing up abortion clinics or occupying military forces, in fact, generally quite the opposite. Have extremists hijacked the narrative in order to manipulate generally ignorant, poor, or idealistic people to join in jihads, crusades, and missions? Yes. Is that the core of these? No. Again, that is my analysis, and you can disagree with it all you'd like without resulting in personally scathing attacks like calling me a liar or the perpetrator of some kind of scam.

Also, real classy with that self-aggrandizing preaching and archaic fantasy part, did you steal that from a real clever blog? When have I ever been preachy? EVEN ROB CAN VOUCH, THE ONLY THING I PREACH IS MUTUAL RESPECT, TOLERANCE, AND LOVE. Your scathing attitude and Rob's crass comments are not part of that dialogue. So I jumped in. I've never promoted one organization, institution, or ideology over another, rather that we all learn to be nice to each other. If you can't dig it, you will inevitably learn how, we all share this planet together.

[dead_battery]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

A sham, and I know it? Real deep there. Again, calling people liars and disingenuous is counter-productive. There is nowhere in the Bible or the Quran, neither in the legitimately recognized literary bodies of Christian or Islamic "tradition" which supports blowing up abortion clinics or occupying military forces, in fact, generally quite the opposite. Have extremists hijacked the narrative in order to manipulate generally ignorant, poor, or idealistic people to join in jihads, crusades, and missions? Yes. Is that the core of these? No. Again, that is my analysis, and you can disagree with it all you'd like without resulting in personally scathing attacks like calling me a liar or the perpetrator of some kind of scam.

Also, real classy with that self-aggrandizing preaching and archaic fantasy part, did you steal that from a real clever blog? When have I ever been preachy? EVEN ROB CAN VOUCH, THE ONLY THING I PREACH IS MUTUAL RESPECT, TOLERANCE, AND LOVE. Your scathing attitude and Rob's crass comments are not part of that dialogue. So I jumped in. I've never promoted one organization, institution, or ideology over another, rather that we all learn to be nice to each other. If you can't dig it, you will inevitably learn how, we all share this planet together.

you preach constantly. facile buzzwords like "respect, tolerance and love" can be both preachy and pukeworthy. they're certainly meaningless in such shallow contexts and posted solely for the benefit of your own ego.

this is not something i dig or will ever acquiesce to because its just feel good vapidity or bland truisms coming from an imminently extinct religion.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

what violence and evil the bible does promote.

extremists haven't hijacked the narrative, they're following through on it.

heres a lazy copypasta to illustrate:

Numbers 31:17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Psalms 137:9Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Ezekiel 9: 5And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. 7And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

Deuteronomy 21:18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

you preach constantly. facile buzzwords like "respect, tolerance and love" can be both preachy and pukeworthy. they're certainly meaningless in such shallow contexts and posted solely for the benefit of your own ego.

this is not something i dig or will ever acquiesce to because its just feel good vapidity or bland truisms coming from an imminently extinct religion.

Whose ego is fooling who? Like I said, folks here can vouch that I sincerely work towards these goals, and if you are contrary, you'll learn inevitably, your strategy is doomed to failure. Only tolerance, respect, and love can build, everything crassly destroys. Its like Dumas wrote, "Those who can't build take pride only in destroying."

[!@#$%!]

so we don't just blame the jew bible

book of matthew

3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

NUCULAR!

and of course:

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

^^ disobedient sons should duck when jesus approaches rock-in-hand

--> ephesians 6, 5-9

Slaves should obey their masters as they would obey Christ. Don't just give lip service, instead obey from your heart. Know that whether slave or free you will receive back what you give from the lord. Masters, stop threatening your slaves, know that he who is master to both of you is in heaven.

[dead_battery]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Whose ego is fooling who? Like I said, folks here can vouch that I sincerely work towards these goals, and if you are contrary, you'll learn inevitably, your strategy is doomed to failure. Only tolerance, respect, and love can build, everything crassly destroys. Its like Dumas wrote, "Those who can't build take pride only in destroying."

nothing you or anyone else ever builds will do anything but fail and crumble. that may be totally against the creation narrative of judaism/xtianity/islam but it is empirically verifiable scientific fact and was already known to the eastern buddhist metaphysicians hundreds of years before your religion finally gave way to something of actual intellectual worth.

these were the same "heathens" your texts command to be stoned to death. yet even they were more advanced than the religions you mention, all those centuries ago.

also, they never fell for the vain delusion it was possible to create anything. science has also proved free will, morality and intention to be fallacies or vague metaphors at best.

i know its hard to believe but some of us don't claim the impersonal and exterior forces that puppeteer our bodies and work through us as our own. so no, i don't have a strategy.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

dead_battery, such bursting optimism and hospitable congeniality ! Surely that great attitude is bound to be successful!!

 

[dead_battery]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

dead_battery, such bursting optimism and hospitable congeniality ! Surely that great attitude is bound to be successful!!

 

the belief that any of those things are likely to bring success is superstition.

the belief there is any success to attain is the same. it's also anathema to me. but obviously not to you sons of yahweh.

[Genteel Death]

dale_gribble Replying to Thread
I hate when...

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Churches have the best infrastructure to enact charities. No tax people looking over their shoulder, no regulation. secular charities have to conform to a strictt set of criteria that make it difficult to maintain.

so make a secular church to evade big brother. you're welcome genteel

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble

so make a secular church to evade big brother. you're welcome genteel