[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

THANK YOU! Somebody who seems to have a basic grasp of politics.

Oh and Don't you boys know nothing? - The USA's the center of Jerusalem.

haha.. I see they've fooled you too

Lord have His mercy

[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

haha.. I see they've fooled you too

Lord have His mercy

Is that a reference to the first post then please go on and enlighten. If it's a reference to the second line then *facepalm*.

[tesla69]

"Speaking to Fox News on Friday, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said he did not mention the war in Afghanistan during his convention speech because he doesn’t think it’s important, even though more than 2,100 American soldiers have fought and died there."

..and the fucking billions and billions of dollars that have been thrown away there...

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by tesla69

"Speaking to Fox News on Friday, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said he did not mention the war in Afghanistan during his convention speech because he doesn’t think it’s important, even though more than 2,100 American soldiers have fought and died there."

..and the fucking billions and billions of dollars that have been thrown away there...

Tesla in relevant and salient point shocker!

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Unsullied by experience? Haha, you're funny how you take this shit so seriously that you'd accuse me of nonsense like that!!

What's your experience with politics besides the internet? Zero. Your naivety is absolute. So life doesn't fit your expectations: Planet Earth says hello.

Sure, we all know there are crooks in politics, we don't need rastafarians to tell us that, but why the need to state the obvious? Human life is a fucking gory mess, no use in turning up your nose and feign disgust.

For some real world experience, try serving some time in your local School Board or some other organization of dissimilar individuals (like a touring, working band). If you can be as holy and compassionate and pure as you want our leaders to be, and have no enemies, and never have to compromise, it means you probably accomplished nothing. Quitters get to remain pure for life.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

What's your experience with politics besides the internet? Zero. Your naivety is absolute. So life doesn't fit your expectations: Planet Earth says hello.

Sure, we all know there are crooks in politics, we don't need rastafarians to tell us that, but why the need to state the obvious? Human life is a fucking gory mess, no use in turning up your nose and feign disgust.

For some real world experience, try serving some time in your local School Board or some other organization of dissimilar individuals (like a touring, working band). If you can be as holy and compassionate and pure as you want our leaders to be, and have no enemies, and never have to compromise, it means you probably accomplished nothing. Quitters get to remain pure for life.

Mr expletives is unequivocally correct. Unwavering cynicism towards politicians is the most orthodox position anyone can take, you have to be able to step back and give decent people credit when they enter politics and genuinely make the world a better place

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

What's your experience with politics besides the internet? Zero. Your naivety is absolute. So life doesn't fit your expectations: Planet Earth says hello.

Sure, we all know there are crooks in politics, we don't need rastafarians to tell us that, but why the need to state the obvious? Human life is a fucking gory mess, no use in turning up your nose and feign disgust.

For some real world experience, try serving some time in your local School Board or some other organization of dissimilar individuals (like a touring, working band). If you can be as holy and compassionate and pure as you want our leaders to be, and have no enemies, and never have to compromise, it means you probably accomplished nothing. Quitters get to remain pure for life.

Haha, you honestly believe that don't you? Whatever floats your boat my brother, but you don't know me like that, and the internet can't tell you just exactly what I do and don't do outside of posting here, so please, back up with your silly assumptions, you are embarrassing yourself

Oh, do you volunteer with the Obama campaign? Do you make phone-calls and go out there and register people to vote? Who is fooling who about being naive then?

Broham, I am a school teacher, suggesting I don't about school board meetings or local politics is just about as absurd as believing the president actually cares about you

Who said anything about quitting just because I am a political nihilist? Just because I don't tangibly support political parties, doesn't mean I am not involved in aspects of the political process, however, again, I don't believe in this bogus imaginary democracy in the first place, so I hardly would waste my time encouraging people to support politicians. Rather, I daily engage in all members of my community, from the water-cooler to the corner store, to become aware, and to become involved at a grass-roots level. Campaigning for Obama is a lot different than working with your local foodbank, homeless shelter, non-profit gang program, or local community outreach. Like I said, who is fooling who about naive when folks like you may be wasting so much of their effort on silly and divisive things like political campaigns. I am far too critical of ANY sitting president to embarrass myself by joining in their little game of song and dance. fuck that, vote for yourself, vote for your community, advocate, organize, but voting is for pussies. By the way, you realize that essentially you just told me the old school Reagan racist right wing philosophy of "love it or leave it" and "if you don't like it leave" politics! So if I don't support one party or another I am some how not American enough for ya? What a joke

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Haha, you honestly believe that don't you? Whatever floats your boat my brother, but you don't know me like that, and the internet can't tell you just exactly what I do and don't do outside of posting here, so please, back up with your silly assumptions, you are embarrassing yourself

Oh, do you volunteer with the Obama campaign? Do you make phone-calls and go out there and register people to vote? Who is fooling who about being naive then?

Broham, I am a school teacher, suggesting I don't about school board meetings or local politics is just about as absurd as believing the president actually cares about you

Who said anything about quitting just because I am a political nihilist? Just because I don't tangibly support political parties, doesn't mean I am not involved in aspects of the political process, however, again, I don't believe in this bogus imaginary democracy in the first place, so I hardly would waste my time encouraging people to support politicians. Rather, I daily engage in all members of my community, from the water-cooler to the corner store, to become aware, and to become involved at a grass-roots level. Campaigning for Obama is a lot different than working with your local foodbank, homeless shelter, non-profit gang program, or local community outreach. Like I said, who is fooling who about naive when folks like you may be wasting so much of their effort on silly and divisive things like political campaigns. I am far too critical of ANY sitting president to embarrass myself by joining in their little game of song and dance. fuck that, vote for yourself, vote for your community, advocate, organize, but voting is for pussies.

Suchy

Can you name some national/international political figures you admire, not as icons like Bobby Kennedy or Dr King, but as people who have toiled within the democratic system to make things better?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

Suchy

Can you name some national/international political figures you admire, not as icons like Bobby Kennedy or Dr King, but as people who have toiled within the democratic system to make things better?

Absolutely none. Politic are a trap. I'm more about community activism and awareness, once you sell-out your own personal power and agency to the politicians you've not only lost the battle, you've given up on the war entirely and are POW to the shitstem. I am sorry to break it to some of y'all, but our political system is a total crock and lie. It always has been, always will be. I understand as folks get older, start families, get involved in their careers and paying their bills that they honestly, genuinely, and sincerely WANT TO BELIEVE in our politics, but believing doesn't make it reality. It is a waste of effort to participate in the political system and process, rather, folks like I said need to be more involved directly in their communities, in their after-school programs, in their gang and community outreach programs, at a grass-roots level. National politics is a gossipy distraction, and Mr. Obama is a lame attempt at "Feel Good" politics but entirely lacks any of the substance needed to actually change things. The folks in our societies that have done the most to change them, are those who worked largely OUTSIDE of the political process, because the political machinery only co-opts the movement, swallows it up alive, and crushes our bones in their gullets

Support your community directly, why waste your time with the President?

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Absolutely none. Politic are a trap. I'm more about community activism and awareness, once you sell-out your own personal power and agency to the politicians you've not only lost the battle, you've given up on the war entirely and are POW to the shitstem. I am sorry to break it to some of y'all, but our political system is a total crock and lie. It always has been, always will be. I understand as folks get older, start families, get involved in their careers and paying their bills that they honestly, genuinely, and sincerely WANT TO BELIEVE in our politics, but believing doesn't make it reality. It is a waste of effort to participate in the political system and process, rather, folks like I said need to be more involved directly in their communities, in their after-school programs, in their gang and community outreach programs, at a grass-roots level. National politics is a gossipy distraction, and Mr. Obama is a lame attempt at "Feel Good" politics but entirely lacks any of the substance needed to actually change things. The folks in our societies that have done the most to change them, are those who worked largely OUTSIDE of the political process, because the political machinery only co-opts the movement, swallows it up alive, and crushes our bones in their gullets

Support your community directly, why waste your time with the President?

Well youve just proved !!!FF@@|| 's point. Removing yourself from wider activism because they dont understand where you are coming from, with your particular gripes, and your particular local issues, you end up sounding like a right wing isolationist - kinda like this guy

 

The fact that democratic politics corrupts is a given, I am fully aware of this, and in my previous post i gave three examples (two of which its entirely understandable that youve never heard of) of people who managed to transcend the imperfect system to achieve something.

My challenge to you is to move beyond the easy cynicism of the Ron Paul idiosphere

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

In order to acquire a growing and lasting respect in society, it is a good thing, if you possess great talent, to give, early in your youth, a very hard kick to the right shin of the society that you love. After that, be a snob. ”

-Salvador Dali

 

Ikra, you do realize that there are other methods and mechanisms to organize and build community without necessarily having to participate with the current established political machinery and parties correct? See that is the whole problem, the political parties have mistakenly convinced people that theirs is the only channel for political activity and community building. Personally, I am not an isolationist neither an obstructionist neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I am not caught up in their game, I play outside the box. But !@#$%! is wrong to assert that just because I don't play the game he and so many others are playing, doesn't mean I am inexperienced, not involved, or hiding under a rock. If anything, I am insinuating that those folks who forgo their own agency to the political party structure and machinery are the ones hiding under the rock, that rock being the veiled imaginary efficacy of politics. Folks who believe that voting for politicians, working directly with their campaigns, registering people to vote, advocating about legislation, all that bullshit is not active in the community, is it copping out to the politicians and surrendering your own ability in hopes they will get the job done which is by definition better suited to be done on the streets, at a grassroots level. This is not necessarily to disrespect folks who believe in all that shit, but seriously, I can't for the life of me figure out why? I do indeed resent folks accusations that because I reject the current political machinery that I've somehow opted out of our society. Again, that is a reversed version of the ol' "Love it or leave it" mantra from racists and rednecks. That is such utter brainwashed bullshit I can't even laugh :/

[!@#$%!]

it never occurs to suchfriends that a politician may "steal" to fund a high school band or an old folks home or a neighborhood clinic and not for his own benefit.

[evollove]

We can go back to Plato for good-enough reasons why democracy in general is stupid.

However, I've noticed that whenever suchandsuch a group overthrows their tyranical leadership, I never say to myself, "Man, I hope they set-up a monarchy. Or some sort of anarchist commune/nation." Nope. I'm always relieved once they get cracking at forming a parliment, drafting a constitution, and setting an election date.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Broham, I am a school teacher, suggesting I don't about school board meetings or local politics is just about as absurd

alright, o holy one, so riddle me this shit: as a school teacher, you've never had to compromise in order to achieve something? i don't know-- do they make you teach a subject you don't believe in, or do something you don't like, but you do it anyway so you can do a greater good as a teacher?

[Keeping It Simple]

On the subject of teachers; the ones in the UK have voted to strike, yet again, over the "erosion" of their pay and working conditions. Personally, I have no time for bong smoking, self-absorbed trotskyites who love nothing better than to brainwash children into becoming as psycho lefty as themselves.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

alright, o holy one, so riddle me this shit: as a school teacher, you've never had to compromise in order to achieve something? i don't know-- do they make you teach a subject you don't believe in, or do something you don't like, but you do it anyway so you can do a greater good as a teacher?

I am not holy, I just refuse to say, "lets join one team because its a bit less evil than another." At the end of the day, I have to compromise every day out of Christian love to let folks grow in slow motion towards a truer community. Politics are centrifugal. That beings said, I am not John Boehner rejecting compromise, that catch us, I am not going to let vitriol to the right suddenly whitewash the sins of the left. Rather, myself, will wash my hands of the whole affair, and work more directly every day in the communities. I agree with the rights criticisms of teacher's unions, not because I disagree with the unions, unions are exactly the kind of grassroots organizations we should support and work with, however unions have become quite persuaded to bed with politicians. I'm not sure that is exactly the idea of a union in the first place Should we suddenly throw out the unions as some scoundrels continually insist? God no. However, again, we need to more actively divorce ourselves from the political machinery and get back to work directly in our communities. Campaigning for a president and getting folks to register to vote may have a "feel good" effect, but at a very real level they are absolute theater, and lack any sort of power to effect actual change in our communities. We should take these same opportunities to advocate for actual change, at our local levels day to day. At a national level, we need to support a changing narrative and dialogue towards community, but we also need to not let that shit get us all disoriented. Assholes will be assholes, we got to learn to live with them, but that doesn't exactly mean we have to suddenly play for their team. Again, there are plenty of other ways to express political action and community building without having to join up directly with the established political machinery. I'm sorry if my facetious ranting has alienated some of y'all who believe in this political theater, but really, it should cause y'all to reflect on our system and think is it worth it to support this?

[!@#$%!]

man that was a long repy to avoid telling me if you've had to compromise with points of view that are repugnant to you. if so, do you feel dirty? are you corrupted?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

man that was a long repy to avoid telling me if you've had to compromise with points of view that are repugnant to you. if so, do you feel dirty? are you corrupted?

The question is, for working with the current political machinery as you've suggested do you? Again, I will reiterate one final time, changing our society is not about letting the political machinery co-opt our movements, rather, we can work outside of these to effect more direct change. I admit to demonizing the machine, but I feel it is appropriate, the machine has a lot of blood on its hands. Perhaps we can work with less sullied organizations and institutions day to day from a bottom-up approach?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

we can work outside of these to effect more direct change.

what have you done, and how have you compromised? come on dude it's not like i'm asking you something you don't know. if you've done it, you know. just fucking tell us!

[the ikara cult]

Suchy i would love to have a beer and an arguement with you in the real world, but at some point we have to transcend our bitterness and cynicism to vote in a practical world.

Of course there are non-political activists who make a huge difference
We have just seen an incredible example of this in the UK this week -

You wanna talk about police corruption, we've just had the biggest police cover up in the last 50 years come out over here

You might not know what that is, but its the equivolant of the Rodney King beating over here. Except 96 people fucking died. And the police are going to get torn to shreds, and rightly so