[SONIC GAIL]

i bought an acre with a mobile home on it for $30,000

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eugene Felikson

I'd really love to own some of John Wayne Gacy's paintings.

 

 

 

 

Dude was an artist, no doubt. + As with with any other celebrity, I wish more people were willing/able to separate some personal decisions he made from his talents. I mean, why not? Murder and art are not the same thing. Murder can be art (to some...), and art can be murder (to others)...but the two are still very different.

Seems some think we should pay these folks little to no attention, in hopes that that any memory/record of them will fall of the face of eternity. Shit just doesn't work like that...not as long as people exist.

Gacy will go down in the history books, just like Jimi Hedrix, Sid Vicious, John Lennon, and Jesus...of course, some will remain in the history books a bit longer than others, but this means very little. They'll all be there for the rest of our lives, our children's lives, our grand kids. This doesn't mean any of them (Jesus included) are worthy of being worshiped or mimicked...but all are worthy of being considered. They all offered something the masses took seriously, which means that there are lessons to be learned about ourselves and those around us from absolutely every one of them.

[kinn]

his art is shit.

you can't seperate it from the man. both were shit. he has nothing to teach anyone except as a bad example.

[SONIC GAIL]

i will not give him cotributions for the evil not just in his head but that he acted upon with absolutly no remorse. i do see the fascination with staring into the mind of evil, but i don't think it is right for ppl to profit from thier crimes while they are in jail for it no less.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

i will not give him cotributions for the evil not just in his head but that he acted upon with absolutly no remorse. i do see the fascination with staring into the mind of evil, but i don't think it is right for ppl to profit from thier crimes while they are in jail for it no less.

They seldom do, at least not in the way of money. Charles Manson and Gacy have/had little use for money..sans whatever sits in their prison accounts, which can be spent on little sans necessity items/snacks. Shit most of us consider to be no big deal.

The real profit goes to those that obtain these pieces of art (often times for free) and sell them.

From what I hear Manson never receives any money for the seemingly endless films/books out there claiming to detail his life. I wonder how much money Guns + Roses made as a result of covering "Look At Your Game Girl"? How much did Vincent B. bring in for "Helter Skelter"? People, often times those with next-to-no connections to these individuals, are the ones making serious profit. I think this has a lot to say about the society/world we live in. Most everyone finds this shit interesting in one way or another.

In others words, a Manson (or whoever else..) painting that goes for $700 dollars...he will likely see very little if any of that money. And even if he got all of it, what's he gonna spend it on? Stamps? A bag of chips? Maybe occasionally a bit of pot (which is a substance often "bartered" in the prison system as prisoners aren't really supposed to keep cash).

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by kinn

his art is shit.

you can't seperate it from the man. both were shit. he has nothing to teach anyone except as a bad example.

Bad examples are extremely necessary, as sad as that sounds.

[kinn]

not in that case.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by kinn

not in that case.

How do you figure?

[kinn]

well, you know, at least for ME personally, i didn't need john wayne gacy to kill all these people so i could work out that serial murdering is wrong.

[kinn]

i don't get the thing people on here and some i've met in real life have for serial killers.

unless it is some sort of idiotic nietzschean vanity trip "OH THESE GUYS CAN SEE THAT LIFE IS LIKE SO NOT SACRED UNLIKE SOSCIEETEE OMG WOW SO COOL ITS LIKE THEY JUST FOLLOW THEIR DESIRES".

fuck off.

one time i witnessed someone start ranting about how if their music "career" didn't "get them famous" they would go on a random murder spree just so "like" it would be "like so fucking omg" because a guy went on a murdering spree then "like" killed himself and "like" "left all these albums behind."

and to this day he's neither dead or made any music that isn't shit. what a surprise.

[ann ashtray]

He's a case study. Without these case studies, we are less likely to understand those that WILL go on to do similar things in the future. Does this mean I'm thankful for them? That's a bit extreme, BUT...I can see the value in these sorts.

If it weren't for them, I suspect we'd see far more people who think their actions boil down to "evil" as opposed to mental illness (which, I for one think it is....). If the actions of these sorts are to ever stop, it's very important for us to not only have theories/speculations, but an actual understanding of what drove them to be the sorts that they became...wether that be negative experiences in their earlier lives, or some medical condition they were born with.

For some they mean little more than entertainment, sure...and entertaining they are. Nothing really wrong with this. most that read up on Gacy, like you, don't need him in order to realize that killing in wrong.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

They seldom do, at least not in the way of money. Charles Manson and Gacy have/had little use for money..sans whatever sits in their prison accounts, which can be spent on little sans necessity items/snacks. Shit most of us consider to be no big deal.

The real profit goes to those that obtain these pieces of art (often times for free) and sell them.

From what I hear Manson never receives any money for the seemingly endless films/books out there claiming to detail his life. I wonder how much money Guns + Roses made as a result of covering "Look At Your Game Girl"? How much did Vincent B. bring in for "Helter Skelter"? People, often times those with next-to-no connections to these individuals, are the ones making serious profit. I think this has a lot to say about the society/world we live in. Most everyone finds this shit interesting in one way or another.

In others words, a Manson (or whoever else..) painting that goes for $700 dollars...he will likely see very little if any of that money. And even if he got all of it, what's he gonna spend it on? Stamps? A bag of chips? Maybe occasionally a bit of pot (which is a substance often "bartered" in the prison system as prisoners aren't really supposed to keep cash).

you know I like the gnr I myself am very interested in crime shows murder stories the gruesomeness. For me it is a way of facing life's adversities. I know they aint got shit to spend on shit whatever shit they make, but I just don't give a fuck about money so someone else can have it. Creation of the hands of evil and he was one evil motherfucker. im not saying you do but alot of ppl assume that evil is genius and sometimes...alot of times it just is not. Simply human nature gone mad.

[kinn]

yeah yeah. i don't care enough to talk about this with you but there is no need for what he did to happen and it does not some how enlighten us all to the material version of truth that claims evil is just an imbalance of brain chemicals.

there is no logic there when you say there is some use in people doing these things so we can research them in order to prevent people doing these things in the future.

that was to swa and not gail btw

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

you know I like the gnr I myself am very interested in crime shows murder stories the gruesomeness. For me it is a way of facing life's adversities. I know they aint got shit to spend on shit whatever shit they make, but I just don't give a fuck about money so someone else can have it. Creation of the hands of evil and he was one evil motherfucker. im not saying you do but alot of ppl assume that evil is genius and sometimes...alot of times it just is not. Simply human nature gone mad.

I don't think evil is genius, but then again I don't think good is either. Good people do bad things, bad people do good things, etc. The intelligence of an individual can not always be determined by simply looking at their actions alone.

Gacy might strike me as talented, but genius...no way. Manson might strike me as being a bit crazy (as well as talented),,,but genius, in the way of "above average intelligence", for sure. Dude might be "evil" (by your definition), but he was and is no doubt a highly intelligent individual....as far as I can tell.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by kinn

yeah yeah. i don't care enough to talk about this with you but there is no need for what he did to happen and it does not some how enlighten us all to the material version of truth that claims evil is just an imbalance of brain chemicals.

there is no logic there when you say there is some use in people doing these things so we can research them in order to prevent people doing these things in the future.

that was to swa and not gail btw

People were once imprisoned for lifetimes for doing things that today are often prevented via proper medications. How you can find a way around this is beyond me. These medications didn't drop out of this air, they came as a result of studying the lives/actions of those like Mr. Gacy.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

He's a case study. Without these case studies, we are less likely to understand those that WILL go on to do similar things in the future. Does this mean I'm thankful for them? That's a bit extreme, BUT...I can see the value in these sorts.

If it weren't for them, I suspect we'd see far more people who think their actions boil down to "evil" as opposed to mental illness (which, I for one think it is....). If the actions of these sorts are to ever stop, it's very important for us to not only have theories/speculations, but an actual understanding of what drove them to be the sorts that they became...wether that be negative experiences in their earlier lives, or some medical condition they were born with.

For some they mean little more than entertainment, sure...and entertaining they are. Nothing really wrong with this. most that read up on Gacy, like you, don't need him in order to realize that killing in wrong.

on the topic of mental illness and I have watched everysingle crime show and interview known to man. There is a difference it is a very thin line but there is a difference. i do not judge those that have a mental illness and end up that way. i do feel sympathetic for both parties. THis is just one of those topics that sits on such a line that it gets mind blowing to think about too deeply.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

on the topic of mental illness and I have watched everysingle crime show and interview known to man. There is a difference it is a very thin line but there is a difference. i do not judge those that have a mental illness and end up that way. i do feel sympathetic for both parties. THis is just one of those topics that sits on such a line that it gets mind blowing to think about too deeply.

I can understand that, it tends to have this effect even on me at times.

[kinn]

if pyschiatric medication prevents a crime it is because it basically gets the person too stoned/dazed/drowsy/physically unable to be in a frame of mind to commit the crime. it does not somehow upgrade the moral cogitations of the brain.

the method is the same as imprisonment, because it is a form of forced distraction that limits the ability to commit crime.

it is a mistake to think that the person on the medication would live their life the same way they would if they weren't on it only because they are on it they are less likely to say decide to pull a trigger.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by kinn

if pyschiatric medication prevents a crime it is because it basically gets the person too stoned/dazed/drowsy/physically unable to be in a frame of mind to commit the crime. it does not somehow upgrade the moral cogitations of the brain.

the method is the same as imprisonment, because it is a form of forced distraction that limits the ability to commit crime.

it is a mistake to think that the person on the medication would live their life the same way they would if they weren't on it only because they are on it they are less likely to say decide to pull a trigger.

Not true....unless of course you believe chemical imbalance in a myth. Many live very healthy/non-stoned lives while on medications. This is not to say that there aren't those that abuse their meds, or are in an experimental phase to where the right meds haven't been discovered yet.

Mental/emotional disorders can drive people to do things the healthy-minded would not.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

Manson might strike me as being a bit crazy (as well as talented),,,but genius, in the way of "above average intelligence", for sure. Dude might be "evil" (by your definition), but he was and is no doubt a highly intelligent individual....as far as I can tell.

I think he had the capacity to talk a good line of shit and the ability to manipulate people as a survival tactic from years in reform school...