[acousticrock87]

The part that's wishful thinking is that you would need every single person in America to agree to it. Everyone. If they didn't agree, you would need guns to take guns. Then other countries would interfere, and the people who took the guns would still need guns. So, in effect, everyone in the world would need to agree.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

California is one place, and 10 years is a very short time. Gang violence is down because of some guy whose name I forgot, who structured various types of police crackdowns in strategic areas. Guns are down because police are up, and police function with guns. Not all of the effective methods involved guns (many involved rehab and churches), and L.A. in particular has been doing well lately. MacArthur Park is down from, what, hundreds of murders every year to a good 4-5 years with none at all? (Except for that extortion shooting recently.) But guns in the world society are a constant, and they'll come back to L.A., too. We get guns smuggled in from other countries, and other countries don't want us happy and functional. It's an endless cycle.

guns are not down because of police. that is not the case. guns are down because they stopped selling them and they stopped issuing permits, and so they literally dried up. I already told you, I plead the Fifth Ammendment on this, so you either take my word for it or not, but guns on the street are much harder to come by today then they were 5 years ago, and five years ago, they were much harder the get then they were ten. It is harder to steal a crate of glocks from the train yards if there are none there to steal. It is harder to steal guns from the gun shop if there are not gun shops around. it is harder to break into some good ol american gun nuts house and steal a dozen of his three hundred hangun collection if that asshole doesnt own the fucking guns to begin with, and these combined are how guns are dissappearing from the streets of California, and as a result, why gun violence is down. gang violence is not down, just gun violence, there is a difference.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

The part that's wishful thinking is that you would need every single person in America to agree to it. Everyone. If they didn't agree, you would need guns to take guns. Then other countries would interfere, and the people who took the guns would still need guns. So, in effect, everyone in the world would need to agree.

its not wishful thinking to stop selling guns to people, it is the reality of many places in america, and if it is the reality in one place, it proves it can be the reality of another. if cali can stop selling guns and the streets not just take over, then so can michigan.

California Handgun Sales:

Year Handgun Sales

2001 155,203
2000 201,865
1999 244,569
1998 189,481
1997 204,409
1996 215,804
1995 254,626
1994 382,085
1993 433,822
1992 382,122
1991 329,133
-----------------------
1990 330,295*
1989 333,069
1988 291,171
1987 273,628
1986 266,480
1985 293,624
1984 275,882
1983 268,462
1982 311,870
1981 371,160
1980 325,041
1979 268,447
1978 258,485
1977 225,412
1976 204,658
1975 231,916
1974 234,691
1973 192,108
1972 190,335




More Than 30,000 Firearms Last YearFor Immediate Release:
06-17-2008


Washington, D.C. - Gun dealers “lost” an average of at least 82 firearms every day last year, totaling more than 30,000 firearms unaccounted for in gun dealers’ inventory in fiscal year 2007, according to a Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence analysis of new data from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) released this month.

Firearms that “disappear” from gun shops with no record of sale are frequently trafficked by gun traffickers and prized by criminals because the guns are virtually untraceable. Corrupt gun dealers also attempt to disguise illegal off-the-book sales by claiming that the firearms were lost or stolen.

“Communities across our nation can’t afford to have corrupt gun dealers failing to account for more than 30,000 firearms - that is a deadly recipe for more gun deaths and injuries,” said Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence President Paul Helmke. “Gun dealers are licensed by the Federal government. With that license comes the responsibility to follow sound business practices to help ensure that dangerous weapons don’t get into the hands of dangerous criminals.”

The 30,000 missing guns are likely an undercount of the total number of guns that disappeared from gun shops last year. ATF conducted compliance inspections at approximately 10,000 of the nation’s 60,000 gun dealers in fiscal year 2007, finding over 30,000 firearms missing from the dealers’ inventory with no record of sale. The other 50,000 dealers were not inspected last year due to limited ATF resources. In fiscal year 2005, ATF examined 3,083 gun dealers and found 12,274 missing firearms.

Weak federal gun laws allow gun dealers to operate without any security or inventory controls. In 2001, ATF proposed that gun dealers be required to take one physical inventory of their firearms each year to ensure that all firearms were accounted for in their shops. At the behest of the gun lobby, Congress approved an appropriations provision in 2004 put forward by Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-KS), blocking ATF from implementing that ATF proposal - and that prohibition remains the law.

[acousticrock87]

What happened when alcohol was prohibited in the 20s? It fucking blew up and made bootlegging the business to be. What happened when drugs were outlawed? It started drug wars. What happens if guns are outlawed? A hot market that's bigger than ever and another thing to fight over.

I could get a gun tonight if I wanted (and I don't own one, never have), and you can plead the fifth but you know you could, too. Guns are around, even in L.A. The people who want them can get them as well as we can.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

What happened when alcohol was prohibited in the 20s? It fucking blew up and made bootlegging the business to be. What happened when drugs were outlawed? It started drug wars. What happens if guns are outlawed? A hot market that's bigger than ever and another thing to fight over.

I could get a gun tonight if I wanted (and I don't own one, never have), and you can plead the fifth but you know you could, too. Guns are around, even in L.A.

dude, are you fucking kidding yourself or just blind? Guns are continually down in california, and they have not increased on the street, and gun violence has not increased. further your argument is not valid, drugs and alcohol get you high and these are things people want to do. guns hurt people, and so they have far less univeral appeal then do drugs.

it wasn't that I couldn't get a gun, it is that I couldn't get a gun as easily, and that being said, is why gun violence is down, because people literally have to think twice about it, and most of the time you are about to shoot somebody, thinking twice solves the problem without violence , because usually, if you are going to shoot somebody you are not thinking to begin with. be oblivious all you want, but I live in a state, county and city that is a million times safer because they got rid of all the fucking gun shops. I can say this as a fact. we have far fewer gunshops in California for guns to go missing as the article above..

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by pbradley

I should buy a hand gun and shoot shit in the desert like Hunter S. Thompson.

 

that's more my style. if there was a desert anywhere near me. i have no reason to own a gun really because i could easily beat someone's ass without it.

when i used to live near woods i would go out into the woods and stack beer cans and shit like that up in little pyramids and shoot at those. usually with a BB gun though.

[Silent Dan Speaks]

I always felt that the second amendment was put in place so that if the government got too powerful, evil, and oppressive the people would have the means to protect themselves. And for that reasoning, I'm ok with it.


Also, I'd much rather be shot than stabbed, so I'm ok with guns.

[cryptowonderdruginvogue]

 

[fugazifan]

Originally Posted by cryptowonderdruginvogue

 

ha!

[greedrex]

The US is a beautiful place.
but selling guns to civilians is ludicrous
stop this shit please
M;Moore help us please

[Anngella]

You're all a bunch of hippies.

[Johnny "Magic Fingers"]

Tsk, tsk, tsk... and I naively thought it was just the ultra-rednecks that loved their guns. Say, is it really really true that over there in the US of A you can get a free hand-gun at any 'bodega' with any purchase of a six-pack and pork rinds?

 

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by Silent Dan Speaks

I always felt that the second amendment was put in place so that if the government got too powerful, evil, and oppressive the people would have the means to protect themselves. And for that reasoning, I'm ok with it.


Also, I'd much rather be shot than stabbed, so I'm ok with guns.

Fuck man, if you think you can defend yourself against the armed forces with even the most ridiculously powerful guns on todays market....

[terriblecanyons]

Technically the second amendment is incredibly outdated. But I do think it does some good. A lot of people up north still hunt, and what are the chances you come along an angry bear? Pretty damn high from where I come from. Or a mountain lion, or a moose, anyway you get the picture. Maybe in huge cities they should be heavily regulated but plenty of places still use them for the right reason.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

Well. Guns are usually a good defense against guns. I would hate to see our police force disarmed. People will always have them, and outlawing them wouldn't change a thing.

Police in the UK aren't allowed to have guns.

But handguns are illegal here so it's not needed.

[PAULYBEE2656]

 

educational.....

[evollove]

Originally Posted by Derek

Police in the UK aren't allowed to have guns.

But handguns are illegal here so it's not needed.

Well, hash is illegal, but I bet you have that.

Wonder how many illegal guns are in the UK? Someone look it up. Quick!

How 'bout some restrictions? Why is the debate always: tons of guns for everyone vs. none for no one? How about:

-mandatory firearm training? A month, at least.
-criminal record for violent offense? ever? sorry, no gun.
-Guns must be purchased through liscenced, regulated gun stores only. No more of this "stop at Wal Mart for some diapers and a semi-auto" shit.
-Underaged kids can get guns at gun shows. Adios gun shows.

Add your own reasonable restriction to the list.

[girlgun]

shootin' guns is fuunnnnnn.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by evollove

-Guns must be purchased through liscenced, regulated gun stores only. No more of this "stop at Wal Mart for some diapers and a semi-auto" shit.

that's bullshit, there's only hunting guns in walmart.

they don't even sell handguns-- i was looking for one the other day.

o, wait-- apparently i'm just unlucky

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12316692/

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Fuck man, if you think you can defend yourself against the armed forces with even the most ridiculously powerful guns on todays market....

the iraqis seem to be doing a kickass job at that though...