[pbradley]

Grammar snipers are suppose to be timely, aren't they? I suppose floating isn't the only thing you excel at doing slowly.

[acousticrock87]

There's certainly some truth to stereotypes like the ones presented in the original post, but we've been fucked in the ass by the government so many times, you'll have to forgive us for feeling a bit powerless.

I hardly watch TV, I always vote, I try to get involved when I can with important issues (though not as much as I could), and I keep relatively up to date with the news. And most people I know are the same way (aside from the TV thing). Point being: I do what I can, most of the time, and so do a ton of Americans. But despite all that, most of us are still pretty convinced it doesn't mean shit in America. Politicians are 100% corrupt, and the country is run by money. So when Europeans bitch about "lazy Americans," I can't help but think they're just as ignorant as us.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Grammar snipers are suppose to be timely, aren't they? I suppose floating isn't the only thing you excel at doing slowly.

It's a message board, next post is as timely as it gets.

No, you can't IM me.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pbradley

You're right, there are absolutely no Americans (other than SuchFriends) that feel guilty for and frustrated by American politics.

the surprising thing is is this statement is true, however I think the most accurate generalization regarding Americans is apathy.

[acousticrock87]

I'm not encouraging apathy, but it's a natural reaction to a fucked up government. What do you expect when you pay your taxes, work with activists, boycott here and there, actually give time and energy, and are still reduced to an "apathetic American"?

If "feeling frustrated" with American politics was all it took, Los Angeles alone would change the fucking world. Talk to the guys in charge of American Apparel; they do make a difference, and they don't give a shit. Walk out to Main and San Pedro and ask someone if they're frustrated. I've done it. Walk into any "off-limits" building in the Garment District with a video camera, right passed the "No Tresspassing" sign, right passed the showrunners, right into the sweatshops. I have a friend who does it for a living, and I've been along with her. She gets the tapes to the people who should technically be able to do something. But those shops are still there, and what happens to the workers even if they do get shut down? Yeah, I'm a little apathetic at times. The power of the almighty I can be a little disappointing.

And Americans didn't elect Bush (the first time). We elected Gore.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

If "feeling frustrated" with American politics was all it took, Los Angeles alone would change the fucking world. .

"A rising sun loomin' over Los Angles Cause for Raza livin in La La Is like Gaza on to tha dawn of Intifada Reach for tha lessons tha masked pass on And seize tha metropolis It's you that it's built on ."

This is truth, if they hadn't built all this crap here, Los Angeles would have become like Mecca or Jerusalem, one of the most powerful spiritual locations in the world, a certain energy eminates from the place, however, alas, no body even notices cuz they are to busy with their electronic/concrete world to realize. Lucky for the world, Jesus Christ is real, otherwise we'd all be in some surrious shit.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

the surprising thing is is this statement is true, however I think the most accurate generalization regarding Americans is apathy.

Yeah, I know you like to think that you are the only one that cares.

[sobriquet]

Yawnorama.

[acousticrock87]

Originally Posted by sobriquet

Yawnorama.

Well, this is a politics thread.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Yeah, I know you like to think that you are the only one that cares.

defensive a bit much?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

I'm not encouraging apathy, but it's a natural reaction to a fucked up government. What do you expect when you pay your taxes, work with activists, boycott here and there, actually give time and energy, and are still reduced to an "apathetic American"?

 

 

 

or you could take a more apathetic approach, the typical American response:

 

[!@#$%!]

who the fuck needs more war right now

as if it could fix much

do we need an ayatollah?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

who the fuck needs more war right now

as if it could fix much

do we need an ayatollah?

its not war, after all,

"we don't neeeeeeeeeed, no more trouble, what we need is love, to guide and protect us all!"

the point was that there are more appropriate reactions then apathy.

George Washington supposedly led america againt the tyranny of british rule in the americas, made a move and took one back.

Emperor Haile Selassie, though pursuing peace diligently, defended himself and his country, even manning the guns himself against the Italian invasion.

The EZLN is making moves against a corrupt system devolved from the slavocracy of the Vera Cruz region.

It is not the violence is the answer, it is that these men were dedicated enough to the truth and to their cause in order to if necessary, give theirs lives and take the lives of others who threaten the truth. In America, we let Americans run around the world with guns killing folks, and our American money is spent on the same cause, and yet, all we apathetic americans do is ignore it, and moderately complain at best.

the truth, is not that pissed off Americans should start offing their landlord of the pig on the beat, but rather, that if they were even half down enough to, perhaps the positive and non-violent moves would be that much more effective, as the Vietmihn land reform policies were in the 1940s and bringing about change in the face of the worst, as are the EZLN schools today. It is their dedication, not the use of force itself, which must be admired and taken to heart.

[acousticrock87]

I'm not really hearing any options. What is a "positive and non-violent move" besides voting, complaining, and watching where you spend your money? You can't just snap your fingers and pass a reform.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

I'm not really hearing any options. What is a "positive and non-violent move" besides voting, complaining, and watching where you spend your money? You can't just snap your fingers and pass a reform.

"voting, its the least you can do"

you can:

volunteer database

volunteer: homeless shelters, local school, NGO fundraising/awareness, etc
work at a youth/community center
organize/centralize your local neighborhood
hold bible studies/political meetings
activism
visit yr local jail [not under incarceration]
get an extra job and dedicate the money to a cause
sponser a kid in another country to go to school
organize a rally/protest

its not that the government or laws will solve the problems, rather community initiative is the solution. there are literally a million things you can do in yr own neighborhood or city. The key is communication. Speak to the people, let them know the truth. represent. the more we communicate, the more change will happen.

etc etc etc

[acousticrock87]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

"voting, its the least you can do"

you can:

volunteer: homeless shelters, local school, NGO fundraising/awareness, etc
work at a youth/community center
organize/centralize your local neighborhood
hold bible studies/political meetings
activism
visit yr local jail [not under incarceration]
get an extra job and dedicate the money to a cause
sponser a kid in another country to go to school
organize a rally/protest

its not that the government or laws will solve the problems, rather community initiative is the solution. there are literally a million things you can do in yr own neighborhood or city. The key is communication. Speak to the people, let them know the truth. represent. the more we communicate, the more change will happen.

etc etc etc

I agree, but I've mentioned doing at least half of those. It just doesn't feel like it helps much. Not to say I don't hope that stuff helps, or else I wouldn't do it, but for the most part internal apathy is my reaction to not seeing the fruits of any of it. I just think that it's very understandable for Americans to not care. It should be changed, yes, and I should definitely be more involved. Especially recently since I haven't done anything in close to a year (you know, when that college activism kick wears off). But, I see a lot of reasons to be apathetic. I can't really help it most of the time. It's just too frustrating to care sometimes. I don't know how it is around the world, but for me in America, and a lot of people I know, we tend to just feel smaller when we try to make a difference, and start to see, real or not, that the difference we make might be worth nothing in the long run.

That's simply my defense for American apathy. In general, though, you're right. That's the attitude we should take.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by Lurker

Ameicans elected Bush.

only 39% of the 32% that actually vote

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by ni'k

1. Nothing is yr fault or responsibility. Stay ignorant, watch the news and believe what they tell you.

2. Ignore those feelings of morality, guilt, responsibility or anti facism with a constant dose of drugs such as music, art, cigs, booze, street drugs, pyschiatric drugs, television, believing in pretend heroes in the movies etc.

3. distort lie and fuck everyone else over in order to live in a little castle of depression and materialism.

4. shopping is the only answer

5. anyone who trys to talk or change things - ignore these people - if you have to deal with them use internalised caricatures of stereotypes and bullshit rationale.

6. stay stupid. get stupider and more ignorant and selfish everyday.

7. internalise all the feelings of powerlessness you are given.

8. well, if there really is a problem someone else will deal with it! make sure to learn this creed off by heart along with the rest of the population.

9. if you want you can buy into mythologies of heroic images and narratives that are out of step with reality.

10. noone else thinks there is a problem, if they did they would have told you - if anyone tells you there might be a problem then they are a whiny pussy liberal bitch.

11. everyone involved with everything is wrong - anyone who tries to change things or say anything can not be judged or valued objectively. they are just whiny pussy liberal bitchs.

12. yr have less rights everday and you can either get into more debt or get gradually poorer. the poorer you get the more depressed you get but you can fix this buy spending money that you dont have.

13. distortion, projection, lies, denial and self hatred are the tools you need to survive another day.

14. if things get really fucked up you can always vote and yr vote will be counted and you must judge the candidate on media distortions of their personalities not their actual policies.

15. if youve read into anything before you might have an idea about how bad things are getting, you might get an inkling that if you REALLY read into it things are actually a lot worse. simply allow yrself to deny reality but believe in whatever tiny scrap of bullshit they toss yr way - examples hilary being somehow the answer cos she's a democrat.

16. sonic youth, noise rock, record collecting, outdated music art and fiction will solve everything.

17. if someone is making you feel something or talking about something simply say - "yeah? well fuck you you arent doing anything to make it better so we both suck!"

18. if things get even worse you can see a pyschiatrist and drug yrself to oblivion.

19. accept slavery to rampant genocidal capitalism and the logic of late capitalism as the only acceptable reality.

20. the constitution is just something from history, dont worry that its slowly being erased everyday.

21. you have no power at all. not even the power of dissent. ignore the concentration camps that are being built they're only for terrorists.

22. every peice of digital media you read or create is being monitored, as are yr phone calls emails etc.

23. remember hurricane katrina? if it happens again remember you deserve death if yr not profitable enough to be saved. sure dont worry, fema will give you a nice trailer after, just dont leave it at the wrong time or youll be shot.

the only appropriate response to this is..

NEXT.

[Rob Instigator]

what gets me is the fucking trial withoput Jury where the judge let off the fucking PIG COPS that murdered that one guy in NYC leaving his bachelor party, 57 fucking rounds fired at three unarmed black men in a car by plainsclothes PIG cops, and the judge lets them off completely, based on what he says is a "procedural error" and not a human CRIME

this fucking country is going to shit so fast, and if you think that it cannot be changed, consider how fucking different our country is now and our reputation and standing in the world is now, to before george "retard monkey" Dubya Bush and his cronies and puppetmasters got into office.

[Cantankerous]

well yeah everyone knows the cops in america suck and they'll harass you for no reason.
what's staggering is not that we elected bush in 2000, but that he was RE elected in 2004. i was struck dumb.