[Glice]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

i wouldnt consider refused "hardcore".

I can't tell if this is well-observed humour or entirely risible.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Glice

Message boards are the last vestige of the spent masturbator, still intent on wasting time in some neg-heroic fashion. Be damned all who sail here.

Good aide memoire, me.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

what makes them hardcore?

The AIDS your parents have?

[Glice]

Dude.

I know LOTS of Hardcore fans. I know lots of Hardcore bands. I know fuck all about Hardcore. I have friends in the Hardcore scene coming out of my arse. Unanimously and without exception, all of them like Refused. More than Black Flag. More than Bad Brains. Just because I'll happily admit knowing fuck all about hardcore doesn't mean you can come in with some sort of faux-intellectualism about what's really hardcore and what's really not hardcore. It doesn't matter. Throw a stone in the ugly, sexless pool of hardcore fans and you WILL hit a refused fan.

[Rob Instigator]

black flag is overrated.

there, I said it

[sonicl]

hard-core also hard·core (härd'kôr', -kōr')
adj.

1. Intensely loyal; die-hard. example: a hard-core secessionist; a hard-core golfer.
2. Stubbornly resistant to improvement or change. example: hard-core poverty.
3. Extremely graphic or explicit. example: hard-core pornography.

Originally Posted by swa(y)

i didnt say fans of hardcore cant like refused, did i? all i said is that i dont think refused are hardcore, shit, i dont think refused even consider themselves hardcore.

and chances are, if bad brains and black flag are the first bands that come to yr mind when ya think "hardcore", then obviously ya probally dont know all that much about it. we're talking about a scene where most albums released were self releases, and you name drop the two easiest to find at the mall? im not too impressed.

its not about who ya know man.

and shit..haha..i know hardcore fans that like motorhead, does that make motorhead hardcore?

Ok sway, YOU are hardcore, not Refused. Glass of wine?

Good for you. Give yourself a punch in the face. It helps prove your point a little better.

[Glice]

Sway, you have AIDS. I'm getting in the shower, then I'm going out to see a gay band with a load of girls, one or more of whom I may have sex with. If anyone would continue to tell Sway that he has AIDS, the bad kind, the kind that makes your face all AIDS-y, that'd be excellent.

To re-cap: I said something right. Sway didn't. Sway has AIDS.

Could've saved a lot of time by just saying that. Oh, efficacy, why hast thou forsaken me?

[sonicl]

swa(y) - You're hardcore stubborn. Does that help?

Originally Posted by swa(y)

dont try and offend me, last time i made a serious attemt at offending you you started throwing out threats and sending me messeges begging me to apologize to people.

God, you really are insane. What threats or begging do you speak of?

Anyway, I'm off too. Another exhibition opening tonight. Another joyful and decadent event.

[sonicl]

Hardcore stubborn was too kind. I've checked the thesaurus, and I prefer "hardcore pig-headed".

swa(y) - you're hardcore pig-headed.

Or, as synthetically would have it, you're 'ardcore pig-'eaded

[sonicl]

I'm going home now, to eat a salad, with some felafel. Which is neither punk nor hardcore. Possibly a little hippy?

[jon boy]

sonicl, you forgot to add albini esque when describing him.

[pbradley]

Punk fashion, another indication of the hypocritical "anti-establish" rhetoric of the so-called punk movement.

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

well, apparently mclaren got his fasion ideas from the time his spent in NY before managing the pistols.

so is it fair to blame the dolls or richard hell?

richard hell's girlfriend cut up all his clothes and he was broke. you do the math.

[Norma J]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

what makes them hardcore?

are they under the age of 24? are they signed to a label? were they around in the early 80s? if you answered "yes" to any of these questions, i think its questionable as to wether or not refused are hardcore.

Man, this is stupid, but anyway:

Refused were hardcore. They were a huge part of the hardcore movement in Umea which influenced a huge majority of Sweden and then internationally too.
The Shape of Punk to Come was not Refuseds first album. That was their album that they wanted to progress and make something more out of punk music, hence the title. And they did a splendid job of it too. Therefore, what's more punk than that?

Anyway, listen to their first couple of albums, they're standard hardcore albums (well maybe "Songs to Fan the Flames of Discontent" was more of a sign of what was to come from them. But still very indicative of hardcore), hence why they've got nothing on The Shape...

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Punk fashion, another indication of the hypocritical "anti-establish" rhetoric of the so-called punk movement.

Hey punk fashion is alright, proper fuckin rebellious. Anyway, kate moss is a punk and she's into fashion so, i dunno. yeah

[Norma J]

Originally Posted by sonicl

I'm going home now, to eat a salad, with some felafel. Which is neither punk nor hardcore. Possibly a little hippy?

You had to mention felafels, didn't you?

Now I crave and my belly rumbles.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Hey punk fashion is alright, proper fuckin rebellious. Anyway, kate moss is a punk and she's into fashion so, i dunno. yeah

In a philosophy that preaches about self-expression against the confines of an ideology, having a discernible fashion is the exact opposite of an anti-herd stance.

History has show time and again that bands have had to "leave" punk rock because what they were doing didn't agree with the established punk dogma.