[screamingskull]

i'm glad somebody did! i wanted to have an actual discussion, not just people replying with comments like "sonic youth rule man"

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by screamingskull

i'm glad somebody did! i wanted to have an actual discussion, not just people replying with comments like "sonic youth rule man"

...yet you start a thread that is a poll between Sonic Youth and The Flaming Lips.

Why not just start a Flaming Lips thread?
Or better still, here's a score of other threads (a few of which you started as erstwhile resident The Flaming Lips proponent):
http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/sea...earchid=502488
Why aren't people utilizing the working search function?
Multiple Vonnegut RIP threads are just the tip of the negligent iceberg here.

You fired the first shot on this SY Message Board with this particular "versus thread" and then you complain as you have in the post above?
What sort of reality are you living in exactly?

It's my feeling that a more desired result (with differing opinions and some discourse) might be attained if you posted this topic at, say, www.rateyourmusic.com.

I mean, despite your own idiosyncratic personal preference* for them,
The Flaming Lips cannot hang with Sonic Youth!

Don't make me laugh!

'Cause they have a few alternately-tuned guitar sounds, you say?

pfft.

*Look, even The Flaming Lips themselves would most likely concede defeat to Sonic Youth's greatness, although I'm certain they would be most flattered to learn that you thought of them so highly.

[fugazifan]

i like the flips music, but i dont listen to it nearly as often as sonic youth. plus i have 22 original (and three on my comp, maybe more...) sy album and only two original and am familiar with two more flip albums. im not really psyched about getting another fluip album. on the other hanfd the lips put on a brilliant show. i saw em a week after sy in boston and they blew me away. the sonic youtrh show was sublime and i gottoo meet them. but something about the pure joy and happines, spirituality of the flaming lips live, made it a really speacial show for me...

[Everyneurotic]

ok, here goes:

i don't like this "better band" kinda discussion because they are pointless, there's no better or worse, just opinions and likes, so it boils down to your "favorite" bands, in reality.

that said, i do agree with you that i feel at war with the mystics is a stronger album than rather ripped, and yes, it seems the case since they spent more time on it than sy with rr; having seen sy play the rr songs a couple of months ago, i feel they should have waited a little to develope them more, as the live counterparts are much experimental, instrumentally better and even noisier with more improv, which i felt made the album feel incomplete.

however, i think that a band that can't sustain a firm line up are bound to produce weaker music than a band with a solid, constant line up, i don't think sy are hit or miss, as you said, i think they are pretty great at what they do and it's because their line up. sure, rather ripped is not stellar but it's still great for simple, direct pop rock album, and they are also experimental, whether the flaming lips go thru phases, (depending on who's on the line up perhaps?) and move marginally within them; also, my guess is that, since there are big gaps in between albums, they seem to be moving in giant steps in their evolution since we can't grasp what happens in those in between years.

both bands are really different, though. sy come from the jazz, minimalism and blues tradition where instrumentalism is the key to their existance, they are here to play, experiment and come up with something new, out of thin air in some cases. the flaming lips, on the other hand, have always been songwriters first and foremost, they are really good at creating these great narrating epic songs built from unlike elements (feedback and guitar skronk early on, samplers and strings lately), they are also incredibly good at incorporating lots of influences into their music and make it their own (like brian wilson and burt bacharach on the soft bulletin or yes and pink floyd on at war with the mystics); yes, sy are also songwriters, but that's not their nature as a group, in fact, songwriting was/is another way for them to experiment.

and about the live front, i haven't seen the lips live so i can't tell. they seem like fun but i find even the best theatrical concerts to be off putting, there's something dumb about props, pyro and costumes at rock concerts, i don't know, i don't like the blue man group or cirque du soleil, i guess i don't like seeing a band pull that while playing songs. whether sonic youth are a raw, sweaty, feedback-drenched punk fest of songs and improvisation, they are a band playing songs live, not a light and sound stage show that could be staged on broadway or las vegas. it's rock n' roll.

[atari 2600]

I went to see Deerhoof open for them last year and left two songs into The Flaming Lips' set...as I predicted I would.

I saw them do The Soft Bulletin live at the 40 Watt and maybe that was a bad one to see first.

As such, I am puzzled by all this "they're great live" jabber.

If I must score something for The Flaming Lips, I will say that my friend Andrew thinks more highly of them than I. He was at the same show and loved it.

But that's all neither-here-or-there to an extent.

Let's go by what we know a bit, shall we?

The Flaming Lips' "Death Valley '69," while not atrocious, is also fairly feeble. I'd venture to say it's on par with what, say, Wilco (in their own way), could come up with if they attempted it. The studio version by Sonic Youth of this song (not my favorite, by any means) beats out most hypothetical comers who try to cover it. And the live version(s) of "Death Valley '69"?
Forget about it...there's never gonna be a another band that can do that...ever.

On the other hand, Sonic Youth could cover any The Flaming Lips song and although it may not sound (in some cases) like the song, it would be a better version in the majority of cases, I would imagine.

[screamingskull]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

...yet you start a thread that is a poll between Sonic Youth and The Flaming Lips.
Why not just start a Flaming Lips thread?
Or better still, here's a score of other threads (a few of which you started as erstwhile resident The Flaming Lips proponent):
http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/sea...earchid=502488

that link doesn't work, and there are already plenty of Flaming Lips threads if i wanted to talk just about them then i would post on those threads, i wanted to talk about the flaming lips Vs Sonic Youth.

Originally Posted by atari 2600

You fired the first shot on this SY Message Board with this particular "versus thread" and then you complain as you have in the post above?
What sort of reality are you living in exactly?

so i cannot have a discussion about the flaming lips' work vs. sonic youth's because god forbid someone might like the flaming lips more. God why do you have to be such an asshole, I hated you on the old message board with all your stupid arguing over the lemonheads and i hate you on here too. You don't seem to be able to let someone else have an opinion that differs from yours or to be able to even have a civil discussion with them about it.

Originally Posted by atari 2600

It's my feeling that a more desired result (with differing opinions and some discourse) might be attained if you posted this topic at, say, www.rateyourmusic.com.
I mean, despite your own idiosyncratic personal preference* for them,
The Flaming Lips cannot hang with Sonic Youth!
Don't make me laugh!
'Cause they have a few alternately-tuned guitar sounds, you say?
pfft.

i don't think i need to answer this, you sound like an asshole enough here for me to not have to call you one.

[screamingskull]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

i do agree with you that i feel at war with the mystics is a stronger album than rather ripped, and yes, it seems the case since they spent more time on it than sy with rr; having seen sy play the rr songs a couple of months ago, i feel they should have waited a little to develope them more, as the live counterparts are much experimental, instrumentally better and even noisier with more improv, which i felt made the album feel incomplete.

i agree with this completely, i think the flaming lips give the songs time to develop and work on them, where as sonic youth maybe don't as much.

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

however, i think that a band that can't sustain a firm line up are bound to produce weaker music than a band with a solid, constant line up, i don't think sy are hit or miss, as you said, i think they are pretty great at what they do and it's because their line up. sure, rather ripped is not stellar but it's still great for simple, direct pop rock album, and they are also experimental, whether the flaming lips go thru phases, (depending on who's on the line up perhaps?) and move marginally within them; also, my guess is that, since there are big gaps in between albums, they seem to be moving in giant steps in their evolution since we can't grasp what happens in those in between years.

but can't that be a good thing? if every album is in a new direction and exploring new territory for the band and it sounds as good as it does then i don't see a problem.

[screamingskull]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Let's go by what we know a bit, shall we?
The Flaming Lips' "Death Valley '69," while not atrocious, is also fairly feeble. I'd venture to say it's on par with what, say, Wilco (in their own way), could come up with if they attempted it. The studio version by Sonic Youth of this song (not my favorite, by any means) beats out most hypothetical comers who try to cover it. And the live version(s) of "Death Valley '69"?
Forget about it...there's never gonna be a another band that can do that...ever.On the other hand, Sonic Youth could cover any The Flaming Lips song and although it may not sound (in some cases) like the song, it would be a better version in the majority of cases, I would imagine.

nope don't agree with any of this. Basically you don't like the flaming lips so why you are commenting in this thread i don't know? Yes you have the right to and yes i wanted a discussion but its pretty pointless to have a discussion about who the better band is with someone who hates one of the bands you are talking about. Don't you think? So why didn't i start this thread somewhere else? well because i know that there are Flaming Lips fans on here, people i could actually have a real discussion with. So i really don't see why you bothered to reply in the detail that you did, it was pointless no?

[floatingslowly]

sonic youth imo.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by screamingskull

nope don't agree with any of this. Basically you don't like the flaming lips so why you are commenting in this thread i don't know? Yes you have the right to and yes i wanted a discussion but its pretty pointless to have a discussion about who the better band is with someone who hates one of the bands you are talking about. Don't you think? So why didn't i start this thread somewhere else? well because i know that there are Flaming Lips fans on here, people i could actually have a real discussion with. So i really don't see why you bothered to reply in the detail that you did, it was pointless no?

You're still harping on this "discussion" nonsense...

If you wanted that, then start a thread about The Flaming Lips

&

not

The Flaming Lips Vs. Sonic Youth

duh

[RdTv]

The bottom line is the Flaming Lips (by Wayne Coyne & Michael Ivans own admission) had no creativity and/or musical direction and then Stephen Drozd stepped in the picture and started to write everything and all the music became like bowie/ny dolls/overproduced/smoke and mirrors. The band has gone on record saying this, OK? Therefore The Flaming Lips are a fluke, a joke that has merely lasted this long, am I saying their music or shows are horrible, no, I'm simply saying they have done nothing special or noteworthy. OK, so their shows are probably the most visually stimulating exsperience you can have whilst attending a concert, but that doesn't make up for the over-production and sense of sugar coating the music gives you, especially the new album, save for 3 songs.

Sonic Youth has spawned countless and countless and countless imitators and inspired a legion of people around the world. Their music is built on creativity, substance and excitement, yes even the newer stuff. So, maybe the shows are less visually oriented, but thats because they are better musicians and don't need costumes and glitter to attract people.

the bottom line: SY=,originality,creativity,high quality, substance
Flaming Lips=production,effects,over the top,indie-pop

[atari 2600]

ew ew

oh

I got it

this thread should have been called:

"The Flaming Lips & Sonic Youth/compare & contrast"

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2 po35u25v-01285

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by screamingskull

...

but can't that be a good thing? if every album is in a new direction and exploring new territory for the band and it sounds as good as it does then i don't see a problem.

i meant that both are different bands, and as i stated first and foremost on my post, you can't say one is better than the other without it being an opinion. so, the flaming lips have phases instead of concious experimental attempts, that's their m.o., and it's a good thing, sy are different, and they mostly make it work.

...screamingskull: you should remember that the vast majority of fl fans from before the soft bulletin think the band doesn't play good music anymore, which boils down to opinions...myself, my favorites are priest driven ambulance and soft bulletin.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by RdTv

The bottom line is the Flaming Lips (by Wayne Coyne & Michael Ivans own admission) had no creativity and/or musical direction and then Stephen Drozd stepped in the picture and started to write everything and all the music became like bowie/ny dolls/overproduced/smoke and mirrors.

although I agree with the latter half of what you say, that is a completely unfair statement.

no creativity? If Wayne ever said that, he would have been lying or playing it up for the interview. the guy's chock full of it. I'm not sure how much of it's on the music right now...but it's there and always has been.

musically, Steven changed the band's sound. whether that's good or bad can be debated, but it finally made them successful.

say what you want about them now, just don't go dissing their entire career like that man!

BACK ON TOPIC: I'd vote for sonic youth twice in this poll if I could.

[ZEROpumpkins]

Soft bulletin is more overrated than Nevermind. There, I said it.

[hey alex]

I read most of page one earlier- and skimmed page two- here;s my change on the subject.


Someone brought that trying to decide who's better of the two is dumb- in so few words- and i agree--- but i'll also lay my prefereance to sonic youth. Reason why is that i just like them more and i can feel a more artistic drive within them. Even with the mediocrity of, let's say, rather ripped, you had the band doing what they do- playing rock'n'roll tunes to fulfill contractual obligation. The F'Lips tho-- and let me say I love them, priest driven ambulane and up thru yoshimi i can always get, at least, a smile to cross me. Mystics,not so much- but that's just becuase it comes off stale to me. Not to cay they've lost their touch, but just suggesting that were working under the idea 'hey people like our wierd noises- let's make an album of wierd noises and make the songs as we go along'-- while this isn't always a bad notion (i myself in my small 4-trackin ways have thought about what sounds should come bfore songs)i''ve always weighed them equally. Not to put myself in abetter position than Wayne 'n' crew- Even I'll admit i havent made anything as moving as priest driven ambulance (maybe i'm on my way tho).



IN short and mayb enot having much connection with my ramble- If i had to choose i'd go with SY- the shows may be smaller scale and sometimes the albums and songs can bring you down down down- but with the Flaming Lips i get a dry feeling- no desert '69- just the feeling i might've heard this before--- if band flying a hot-air PIG outside a factory were in the game today- y'knoe?

[hey alex]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

and why do people feel the need to constantly rank sonic youth with all these 80's indie shit rock bands?

i mean...they are something totally different.

but couldn;t you imagine the magic---


dokken youth, brother.
dokken youth.

[SonikJesus]

Originally Posted by screamingskull

Who’s better, not who’s your favourite, but who is the better band?



Sonic Youth are my favourite band, they have been for 5 years and they probably always will be, but I do think that the flaming lips are a better band. I have seen them both live, I own all the albums both bands have put out and I think as they started around the same time (1981-83) they can be compared quite nicely.
The Flaming Lips have put out 11 albums in 24 years, Sonic Youth 17 albums in 26 years (22 albums if you include the SYR’s). But where as the Flaming Lip’s albums seem to be consistently great! Sonic Youth seem to be more hit and miss for me, Take their most recent albums Rather Ripped and At War With The Mystics, I prefer at war with the mystics to be honest, It has some fantastic songs on it and even the songs in between the fantastic ones are great. There really is not a song on that album that I don’t like. Rather Ripped is a good album, it’s a little to polished and clean and poppy for my taste, but I did love Murray Street.
Maybe its because the Flaming Lips take lots of time to put out an album? They took 4 years to do At War With The Mystics and 3 Years to do Yoshimi. Where as SY do an album every 2 years as it seems.
The Flaming Lips have had a lot of different band members, but have stayed the same since 1996, I think the influence of these other musicians has helped them to grow and change as a band, if you were to listen to Hit to death in the future head then Clouds Taste Metallic then Yoshimi you wouldn’t think it was the same band, Their sound has changed, it hasn’t gotten better as it was already amazing!, its just changed and I love it.
Sonic Youth have had the same line up since 1986, Thurston, Kim and Lee are all hugely creative people that have not only put out sonic youth albums but also done their own side projects, something the flaming lips haven’t. But Sonic Youth have just cleaned up for me, their sound has gotten slicker cleaner and tighter. They can put as much feedback as they want on Rather Ripped but it still comes out sounding slick because its been recorded on fantastic equipment.
When Sonic Youth do a good song its REALLY REALLY good, but how often does that happen now? It’s like the Flaming Lips are consistently a 7/10 and Sonic Youth can write an album that has two 10/10 songs on it and the rest are 4/10. So maybe the flaming lips are better at writing albums and sonic youth are better at writing songs. Sonic youth are past their best now, its hard to admit that, but they are, they were at their best in the late 1980’s. That when they could write a REALLY REALLY good album.
Live the flamings lips are the most amazing thing in the world, they really try hard, and it pays off, its like going to the most amazing church service ever, Wayne speaks his gospel and you come out a changed person. They play the songs the fans want to hear and make it an interactive fun time! I don’t think I have ever had more fun than at a flaming lips gig.

 

 

Sonic Youth are a good live band, I wouldn’t put them in my top 5 live bands. some bands are just good live like the Brian Jonestown Massacre. When sonic youth play a song live that I know really really well I am always disappointed at it doesn’t sound exactly the same. For the flaming lips a lot of the songs are now created on a keyboard so they are easier to play exactly like the sound on the album, for Sonic Youth the songs are so layered and harder to play live harder to recreate. I could talk about how influential both bands have been and I think Sonic Youth would win that contest but I have already written enough.

This is just my opinion, Sonic Youth are still my favourite band because like I said, when they are good they are really really good. But I think the Flaming Lips are the better band.

Discuss.

I haven't gotten into the Flaming Lips yet but I disagree with you on some points. I don't think their album are hit-or-miss. Everyone is always saying how great 80's SY is; like if everything they did after that was never as great. Don't get me wrong, I love 80's SY but they still kept putting out great records after that. Records like Washing Machine and A Thousand Leaves as well as others contain a lot of amazing songs. To me, SY keeps getting better with age. Sonic Nurse is my favorite SY record and it's pretty recent. The only records that I wasn't so amazed by are EJSTNS and RR. They aren't bad records, they are just average to me.

You also said that you prefer the Lips' live shows because the songs sound as they do on the album because they are done mostly on keyboards. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to go to a show to hear songs that sound like they do on the album. There is no point.

I agree with you about SY not spending so much time on their records but that is just how they write them. They get together every two years and get songs together. I personally don't think SY needs to spend more time writing their records.

[SYRFox]

I don't like Flaming Lips. Can't say why, maybe because it's too "symphonic" for me, but I just can't enjoy them

[ZEROpumpkins]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

overrated like pavement, huh?

Nope, I don't find Pavement overrated. Wowee Zowee is underrated IMO.