How Important was Jim O Rourke to SY when he was in it? - Page 2

jennthebenn · 11.14.2007, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Wheel Memory

OK, Jenn... You have to tell us more about the florida avenue grill!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...file&id=792185

one of the great eating spots of the nation's capital...at the first show in DC on June 15 last year, thurston spent some time telling the crowd about their wonderful breakfast there ("the grits were...historical"), and thurston shouted it again during his solo show here this year.

Dead-Air · 11.15.2007, 01:23 AM

Jim was hugely important to Sonic Youth when he was involved, and massively creatively so. I don't understand how anyone could think differently. If you don't like the stuff he's involved in, that's one thing, but to underscore his role in producing, playing, and co-writing it is just totally wrong.

Take NYC G&F for instance, he obviously got the band to try things they had never really did before (like getting Kim and Thurston to harmonize vocals instead of just always trade them off.) Then on Nurse, he was crucial in getting that incredible layered mix. Not too mention the dimension he added to the band live, by freeing the original members up to try new instruments (or in Kim's case often go without) and making it possible for them to have three or more guitars live (on the Nurse tour at times he played guitar instead of bass so that there were four!)

He also made SYR 3 and SYR 4 the most boundary stretching of that series. I'm not saying the rest of the band didn't as well, but he was hardly extra baggage! He recorded and mixed most of it as well as playing on it. When you used to go to the Echo Canyon Cam he was constantly in that studio. And to watch him playing live, I'm certain he was having a blast rocking out - he's just a multi-faceted guy who eventually had to move on to other things.

While I don't like Rather Ripped nearly as much as Nurse, I have a lot of faith in the four originals (and yeah, I know Steve is a few years short of being an "original", but I still had him sign my copy of Kill Your Idols when I had the rest do so in '91) to get fully back on track. I'm not one of these people who claim Jim made the group, but I am forever impressed with his ability to measure up to such a brilliant band and meld with them perfectly for as long as he did.

Dead-Air · 11.15.2007, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swa(y)

agreed.

the only thing is, even though i do think jim had a major influence on the NYCG&F vibe, i think its important to consider that sonic youth, even without jim, have always been up for "evolving" musically. and, lest we forget, their equipment was stolen right before that album, which, according to them, kinda forced them to try something a little different.

Sure, and we don't have any disagreement there either. Though I suspect that the stolen equipment probably forced them to try things different in the tuning realms, while a new producer/band-member probably had more influence on the arrangements of the songs.

PAULYBEE2656 · 11.15.2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I take it people here either never have seen, or are completely ignoring Jim's contributions to live Sonic Youth. If you had it would be crazy to say "he didn't enjoy it" and that "he wasn't imporant in a creative way" well that is just absurd! poor jim getting no credit for the five or six years he worked with a group... that must suck!

thats bit harsh there. he didnt enjoy the touring part of the youth. he wasnt a major songwriter in the youth. i have seen jim live with the youth and i am not ignoring his part... his part is obvious on murray st and on parts of nurse but thats it. he wasnt the be all and end all of sonic youth. he left, the youth are still going so there is the proof! as too say he gets no credit... thats absurd... please read posts before replying to them!

its hard to get your point accross when misinterpretation is all part of the game!

Dead-Air · 11.15.2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAULYBEE2656

thats bit harsh there. he didnt enjoy the touring part of the youth. he wasnt a major songwriter in the youth. i have seen jim live with the youth and i am not ignoring his part... his part is obvious on murray st and on parts of nurse but thats it. he wasnt the be all and end all of sonic youth. he left, the youth are still going so there is the proof! as too say he gets no credit... thats absurd... please read posts before replying to them!

its hard to get your point accross when misinterpretation is all part of the game!

He's all over Nurse, and just as much NYC G&F! And lets not forget the very best of the SYR records 3, 4, and 6! When I saw him playing live with them (four times if I remember right!) he had a huge smile on his face and looked like he was having a blast.

I'm sure he wanted to move on when he left, because he did, but to say he didn't enjoy it makes no sense. Why would he have given up half a decade of his life if he didn't enjoy it? It's not like he was getting rich from them or couldn't have found another gig. He still plays with Thurston pretty frequently. Sure, for Jim O' Rourke long term membership to a group is probably not ever going to happen, but h totally went at it full bore in Sonic Youth.

11.15.2007, 11:41 AM

Do you guys have nothing better to do than worrying about these bollocks?

Magic Wheel Memory · 11.15.2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Do you guys have nothing better to do than worrying about these bollocks?

The only thing worse is that you apparently have nothing better to do than to worry about whether the rest of us have anything better to do!

atsonicpark · 11.15.2007, 05:33 PM

my dog just took a shit.

val-holla-ing · 11.15.2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swa(y)

well, for starters...not one album jim was involved in sucked.

i don't know, dude. experimental jet set would argue the opposite.

val-holla-ing · 11.15.2007, 05:47 PM

if you're wondering how great a difference jim made in sy, listen to everything pre-nyc g&f and then listen to what came from then on.

not necessarily better or worse, but definitely different.

Dead-Air · 11.15.2007, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Do you guys have nothing better to do than worrying about these bollocks?

"Better to do" is a pretty silly thing to worry about. Of course there is always something "better to do"! Rather than posting on a message board we could all join the Peace Corps, or go prevent some neighborhood stray cats from breeding!

It shouldn't be too surprising that a message board on the Sonic Youth website would attract people who like expounding exhaustively about Sonic Youth. Where else can we find other Sonic geeks willing to take it so far?

I'm concerned enough about keeping what few real life friends I have, that I wouldn't go on like this about the worth of Jim 'O Rourke in Sonic Youth with them. But here, I should be able to count on even bigger geeks, who'll still be talking about it after I've gotten bored and gone back to watching Doctor Who with my wife!

Cantankerous · 11.16.2007, 01:22 AM

considering the fact that all of their albums during his time in the band are good or fair at worst, and that rather ripped, their first album without him, is their worst album to date, i'm thinking they need to give him a call.

nicfit · 06.18.2009, 10:45 AM

looks like they could use his tech-savviness ah ha!

kiddin.

Shifty Prophet · 06.18.2009, 10:53 AM

He was very important, from a thousand leaves to nurse, this guy brought a noticeable change in direction to the music, but without sacrificing the quality and vision of the original members.

Jim o'Rourke to me is an enigmatic figure in music. His solo projects are usually great,straight ahead pop records, while most albums he produces, or plays on are complete opposite.

dasx · 06.18.2009, 02:13 PM

Jim O'Rourke was important, but not indispensable. Good man who did what he had to do. Sonic Nurse (and probably both albums which came after that) would be different without the influence of Jim.

joe11121 · 06.18.2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead-Air

Jim was hugely important to Sonic Youth when he was involved, and massively creatively so. I don't understand how anyone could think differently. If you don't like the stuff he's involved in, that's one thing, but to underscore his role in producing, playing, and co-writing it is just totally wrong.

Take NYC G&F for instance, he obviously got the band to try things they had never really did before (like getting Kim and Thurston to harmonize vocals instead of just always trade them off.) Then on Nurse, he was crucial in getting that incredible layered mix. Not too mention the dimension he added to the band live, by freeing the original members up to try new instruments (or in Kim's case often go without) and making it possible for them to have three or more guitars live (on the Nurse tour at times he played guitar instead of bass so that there were four!)

He also made SYR 3 and SYR 4 the most boundary stretching of that series. I'm not saying the rest of the band didn't as well, but he was hardly extra baggage! He recorded and mixed most of it as well as playing on it. When you used to go to the Echo Canyon Cam he was constantly in that studio. And to watch him playing live, I'm certain he was having a blast rocking out - he's just a multi-faceted guy who eventually had to move on to other things.

While I don't like Rather Ripped nearly as much as Nurse, I have a lot of faith in the four originals (and yeah, I know Steve is a few years short of being an "original", but I still had him sign my copy of Kill Your Idols when I had the rest do so in '91) to get fully back on track. I'm not one of these people who claim Jim made the group, but I am forever impressed with his ability to measure up to such a brilliant band and meld with them perfectly for as long as he did.

I agree.

Newfoundland · 06.20.2009, 04:47 PM

I agree!
He added a lot of nuances, like the "mixing board solo" in Karen Revisited or the piano in Dripping Dream at 6:27. It sounds like he made them work a bit harder, I really liked that.

[Sandbag] · 06.20.2009, 07:28 PM

he made the tea.

SpectralJulianIsNotDead · 06.20.2009, 07:42 PM

I think when he played guitar it brought an added dimension to their music.

nancykitten · 06.20.2009, 10:52 PM

Wish he'd rejoin. Maybe we could have four guitars and Ibold on bass.

11.15.2007, 01:23 AM	#22
Dead-Air invito al cielo Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Portland OR Posts: 4,300	Jim was hugely important to Sonic Youth when he was involved, and massively creatively so. I don't understand how anyone could think differently. If you don't like the stuff he's involved in, that's one thing, but to underscore his role in producing, playing, and co-writing it is just totally wrong. Take NYC G&F for instance, he obviously got the band to try things they had never really did before (like getting Kim and Thurston to harmonize vocals instead of just always trade them off.) Then on Nurse, he was crucial in getting that incredible layered mix. Not too mention the dimension he added to the band live, by freeing the original members up to try new instruments (or in Kim's case often go without) and making it possible for them to have three or more guitars live (on the Nurse tour at times he played guitar instead of bass so that there were four!) He also made SYR 3 and SYR 4 the most boundary stretching of that series. I'm not saying the rest of the band didn't as well, but he was hardly extra baggage! He recorded and mixed most of it as well as playing on it. When you used to go to the Echo Canyon Cam he was constantly in that studio. And to watch him playing live, I'm certain he was having a blast rocking out - he's just a multi-faceted guy who eventually had to move on to other things. While I don't like Rather Ripped nearly as much as Nurse, I have a lot of faith in the four originals (and yeah, I know Steve is a few years short of being an "original", but I still had him sign my copy of Kill Your Idols when I had the rest do so in '91) to get fully back on track. I'm not one of these people who claim Jim made the group, but I am forever impressed with his ability to measure up to such a brilliant band and meld with them perfectly for as long as he did. __________________ FuckBook; My Band; My Radio Show; My Flickr Page; Science Fiction Message Board
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.15.2007, 11:41 AM	#26
sarramkrop Posts: n/a	Do you guys have nothing better to do than worrying about these bollocks?
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.15.2007, 05:33 PM	#28
atsonicpark invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 28,843	my dog just took a shit. __________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.15.2007, 05:47 PM	#30
val-holla-ing invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: baton rouge. the 225, big raggedy. Posts: 2,731	if you're wondering how great a difference jim made in sy, listen to everything pre-nyc g&f and then listen to what came from then on. not necessarily better or worse, but definitely different. __________________ please do not misconstrue the previous statement as an invitation for same sex relations or as negative towards anyone of another sexuality. -cam'ron (formerly "no homo")
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.16.2007, 01:22 AM	#32
Cantankerous invito al cielo Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A RETIREMENT HOME Posts: 18,499	considering the fact that all of their albums during his time in the band are good or fair at worst, and that rather ripped, their first album without him, is their worst album to date, i'm thinking they need to give him a call.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

06.18.2009, 10:45 AM	#33
nicfit invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: banana boat Posts: 15,570	looks like they could use his tech-savviness ah ha! kiddin. __________________ 11:11 11-11-11 I Ascended.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

06.18.2009, 10:53 AM	#34
Shifty Prophet 100% Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Posts: 725	He was very important, from a thousand leaves to nurse, this guy brought a noticeable change in direction to the music, but without sacrificing the quality and vision of the original members. Jim o'Rourke to me is an enigmatic figure in music. His solo projects are usually great,straight ahead pop records, while most albums he produces, or plays on are complete opposite.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

06.18.2009, 02:13 PM	#35
dasx children of satan Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 307	Jim O'Rourke was important, but not indispensable. Good man who did what he had to do. Sonic Nurse (and probably both albums which came after that) would be different without the influence of Jim. __________________ www.soundcloud.com/black-spy www.soundcloud.com/haikala
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

06.20.2009, 04:47 PM	#37
Newfoundland bad moon rising Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 148	I agree! He added a lot of nuances, like the "mixing board solo" in Karen Revisited or the piano in Dripping Dream at 6:27. It sounds like he made them work a bit harder, I really liked that.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

06.20.2009, 07:28 PM	#38
[Sandbag] 100% Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 820	he made the tea. __________________ My new facebook page for my new mainstream noise band
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

06.20.2009, 07:42 PM	#39
SpectralJulianIsNotDead invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,409	I think when he played guitar it brought an added dimension to their music.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

06.20.2009, 10:52 PM	#40
nancykitten children of satan Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Glasgow, UK Posts: 316	Wish he'd rejoin. Maybe we could have four guitars and Ibold on bass. __________________
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|