[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by gmku

Radio mostly sucked when I was growing up in the 70s. Like today, it was dominated by the dumbass commercial stations that played to some imagined "popular" taste. The independents were hard to find, but what was there was good.

the internet is the new college radio.. commercial radio is, was, and always has been absolutely terrible.

[DJ Rick]

Originally Posted by summer

ANTICIPATION, man. Does anyone else think we could use this concept again, at least in some capacity? I would love it if bands were to like.. just release songs two or three at a time. No leaks to speak of, just music on the spot. Hype, real hype. Think of it, music listeners must have at one time had to waited for their music with bated breath. It may seem archaic now, but I think there is still a place for this sort of thing.

There is still a place for this.....It's called go out and find your own rabbit hole to jump into which will plunge you headlong into the 7" underground. A band like the Mayyors doesn't even have a website or MySpace page. The only way to hear them is through really lossy Youtube vids or buy a 7" when it comes out. Nobody will know what the next one will sound like. They live in my city here, and I'm probably their #1 fan, and I don't even know what it's gonna sound like.

And you don't think there were leaks in the pre-internet days when radio was actually relevant? That kinda thing did indeed happen, as radio stations got advance copies of forthcoming releases to play. Hell...even your beloved Depeche Mode got leaked this very way. Also, consider how the lead-off single for each album was released several weeks (if not months) prior to the album coming out.

You say no leaks builds anticipation? Think about it....Leaks are what builds anticipation. But it's leaks that are more like a calculated controlled slippage that do the trick. I do agree that when a band's entire album is downloadable on someone's blog, it can be pretty detrimental.

But just know that the radio--in general--has always sucked since the 70s when FM radio became much more popular and marginalized AM except for news, talk, and sportscasts. It has primarily only aided and abetted hero worship through repetition of artists chosen to succeed by the hegemonic alliance of music business heavyweights. Your local "modern rock"-formatted radio station really just behaved like a mirror to the world of "pop/rock/top 40" and "adult contemporary" and "country/western" and "R&B/top 40" and "classic rock" stations.....it was just as repetitive and stepped just as safely to serve its niche in the marketplace. It deserves no credit for being "cool". And much of "college radio" was even somewhat mirroring that corporate game, too.....program directors and music directors were often limiting DJ choice by enforcing a form of "rotation" which favored labels and promoters who they wanted to earn internships with the following summer.

It was different in many ways in the 60's when pop/rock/r&b was still wide open enough that new musical concepts and technology applications could be adopted quickly by fans all over the USA. People became radio DJs because they were actually obsessive fans of new music....not because they could talk succinctly about weather and commute conditions and deliver promotional script so perfectly. And society by and large looked at live music as a favored pastime.......not like today when everybody had 500 TV channels, such as those that show every game of each and every sports league. People are pretty content now living their lives watching other people living their lives on TV. And how many young people are playing video games on any given night of the week, compared to the number of young people in clubs or houses watching bands play? Well, in the 60's, there was live music which a large percentage of the population enjoyed it regularly. Things would wane in the 70s due to a generally more jaded music consumer marketplace, which lowered expectations...and then there was thing called disco which caused many music venue owners to close their doors to bands once they realized that they could still charge a cover, but they'd only hafta pay one dude to DJ, and no ladies would get trampled by stampeding fans, and microphones and stage props wouldn't get broken, etc., etc.

The other thing about AM was that in the 50s and 60s, there were stations in places like Kansas City and Cleveland and Detroit which could often be heard on both coasts of the USA, and that put these regions on a more equal footing with L.A. and New York. It was possible then for a young garage band like Kenny & the Kasuals to make a record locally in Oklahoma and drive it up to Kansas City to that extra-regional radio station, and if the DJ really liked it, it could become a hit there, and be heard all across America. And this was a true story that actually happened....Kenny & the Kasuals had their 15 minutes of fame and dented the top 40 charts with that record, and they were able to tour and make a few national TV appearances.

Once FM took over, though, you hafta understand what's different about FM......even the most powerful FM station in your region cannot be heard more than about 50-70 miles away in any direction. So, in order for record labels to achieve hit records, they'd hafta coordinate their promotional effort so that the record would be placed in rotation on certain formatted radio stations in each and every geographic media marketplace. In California, maybe you'd also conspire with something like Bill Graham Presents, who had his hand in the cookie jar to collect concert proceeds, and Graham had a lot of influence on several radio stations throughout Northern California. Record labels created new divisions that dealt specifically with radio promotion.

This more organized effort to control what gets played on the radio meant that those old-time DJs who LOVED music and therefore only played music that they loved would hafta be replaced by "yes men" DJs who just read brief script and threw off concise banal banter to seem remote human-like. Eventually, several radio stations became totally automated. This set into motion a set of circumstances which--after corporate broadcast lobbies massaged the laws to allow them to own so many radio stations (and TV stations) in each and every market throughout the land--led to shit like Clear Channel controlling playlists in every city across many demographically-pointed formats from board rooms in San Antonio, Texas.

It got so bad that millions of people actually think "Jack FM" is something really cool.

This story also explains a little bit about why bands like The Stooges and the MC5 never made it outside of Michigan until the legend of their influence had accumulated thanks mainly to historians.

Stations like WFMU and the handful of stations like mine that admire WFMU are extremely rare. And they've always been pretty rare since the 70s. Radio is pretty useless, by and large. We mainly only matter as much as we do because of the streams that we put out there for people who are actually musically curious and go hunting on the internet. That's pretty much the purpose of my own program. People with less time and access than me to new music and rare music might just sorta tap into my streams like an oil rig sucking out petroleum...and that way, bands I like can find a new fan here and there.

If you're in the UK, you might ask, "What about us?" Well, your mainland is about the size of one of our medium-sized states, so at its best, your music journos had the ability to focus on any kinda music from any city or town with the same care as a zine covering a local scene here. And you had this dude named John Peel. So your so-called mainstream channels of music information never completely sucked until rather recently.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by DJ Rick

So your so-called mainstream channels of music information never completely sucked until rather recently.

I'll just say that, although Classical might not be your bag, we do still have Radio 3. In fact, I've been saying it to pretty much anyone whinging about the lack of Peel - we still have Late Junction and Andy Kershaw.

I'm not too sure about your saying 'so-called' mainstream. The BBC is as much of a global brand as McDonalds, I would say.

Otherwise, as ever, big fan of your posts, more power (etc).

[demonrail666]

Although I disagree with some of what's said,

I have to spread more rep before giving it to DJ Rick again.

[afterthefact]

Being 25 years old, I just sort of slid off of the radio and into the internet in my formative years. I think I was 14 when I first realized that you could download songs off the net. Sure, Napster wasn't fully formed yet, and it required searching peoples personal webpages, and in most cases you also needed (*shudder*) Real Player. But it worked, and I liked it.

As far as radio goes, once again due to my age, I never knew radio to be in any way especially good. Sure, as a kid I loved Michael Jackson, and I would stay in the car when everyone else went inside when that song Wild Wild West came on (I have no idea who does that song), but even then I knew there was a chance of hearing crap (Taylor Dayne anyone?).

As Rob mentioned, there was a time when DJ's could pick the music they wanted to play, and sure that was better, but better isn't always good. Yeah, they may have played an Al Green song followed by Hank Williams, and that would have been cool, but what if they had a hankerin' for Dolly Parton? You still didn't have control over what you would listen to.

I like the internet for this reason. Sure, it may have killed the anticipation of new releases, and for some that may not be worth it. Myself, I've never cared about new stuff, just stuff I like. That being the case, I like being able to pick and choose exactly what songs I will hear, and even what order I will hear them in.

Internet>Radio

[PAULYBEE2656]

radio still is the best medium there is no doubt but sadly popular music and lady gaga and black eyed peas have ruined it for everyone but here in ireland we have still got some killer djs on the air and on rte the national state broadcaster, they just arent on in the middle of the day! pirate radio stations are great and there should be more of them but logistics and fucking the man with the golden lawsuit put a stop to them about 15 years back. i did a friday night 3 hour show on a pirate in dublin from 1995-1998 and it was great fun and the station is still broadcasting...via the web unfortunatley...... again broadcasting laws are there to protect the artists but what better exposure than one music fan telling others how cool that shit is...... its better than kurt cobain wearing a sebadoh shirt or buying a yeah yeah yeahs album because you liked the single....

radio on...........................

[Dead-Air]

Radio was not cool at all. It was a cesspool of stuff like Kansas and the Greg Kinh Band, and that was the "cool" FM stations that were supposed to be "far out". The good old days never existed, and complaining about growing up in an age of accessibility when you don't even need record labels to find good music is pointing the finger at ones' self and shouting, "Me spoiled!"

[Glice]

Originally Posted by afterthefact

BYeah, they may have played an Al Green song followed by Hank Williams, and that would have been cool, but what if they had a hankerin' for Dolly Parton?

I'm flabbergasted. You can't knock Dolly, you really can't.

[floatingslowly]

you can't knock her knockers either.


I would also like to say Oklahoma had John Peel first. respec'.

[DJ Rick]

Said Peel: "I had been working on radio in America since 1961, initially Dallas, Texas; then I got into it full time as a Beatle expert in Oklahoma City in '64/66."

[floatingslowly]

during that time, the 50,000-watt radio radio station he worked at (KOMA) was the most listened to radio station in the entire country.

note: the "had him first" was in regards him being at the BBC, and was not a suggestion that KOMA was his first job. I like trolling my english friends. and by friends, I mean, my captive audience.

Originally Posted by Glice

I'll just say that, although Classical might not be your bag, we do still have Radio 3. In fact, I've been saying it to pretty much anyone whinging about the lack of Peel - we still have Late Junction and Andy Kershaw.

I'm not too sure about your saying 'so-called' mainstream. The BBC is as much of a global brand as McDonalds, I would say.

Otherwise, as ever, big fan of your posts, more power (etc).

Not to rain on your parade but almost every European state-funded radio network has or has had a third or second channel dedicated to more 'pensive' stuff like classical music. In Italy we have Radio 3, which is pretty much the same thing as the Radio 3 you get in England, and I think it started broadcasting this type of music before it too. As far as I know it's still that way. Really, nothing new there.

The structure of radio and TV state-funded channels in Europe is different to that they have in the States. For the better or the worse.

Another thing, if you go back in time to post-war Europe, a considerable amount of the national budget was given to the development of new technologies in terms of sound in all the developing countries of the continent.

This is how you got a plethora of library music records in the first place. A lot of these musicians/composers were closely tied to radio and TV broadcasting of the state-funded kind.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Glice

I'm flabbergasted. You can't knock Dolly, you really can't.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Glice again.

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by Glice

I'm flabbergasted. You can't knock Dolly, you really can't.

I beg you to tell me that this is some sort of joke, with the irony being lost due to it being typed and not said in person.

Originally Posted by Dead-Air

Radio was not cool at all. It was a cesspool of stuff like Kansas and the Greg Kinh Band, and that was the "cool" FM stations that were supposed to be "far out". The good old days never existed, and complaining about growing up in an age of accessibility when you don't even need record labels to find good music is pointing the finger at ones' self and shouting, "Me spoiled!"

Ain't that the truth? It's like complaining because your new yellow Ferrari is too yellow.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by afterthefact

I beg you to tell me that this is some sort of joke, with the irony being lost due to it being typed and not said in person.

The thing is, I wouldn't describe myself as a 'hardcore' country fan (I'll leave that to a certain new Country sympathiser who posts here), but if you appreciate Hank, you probably appreciate (not very country) Cash. Dolly Parton has produced more amazing songs than Cash, and written many, many more great songs than Cash (boy named sue and, er...). I'll give you that the 82+ fallout hit Dolly's creativity hard, but she held out against the tide of shit country longer than anyone else I can think of in the old guard.

Another thing - if someone likes something that you don't, they're not being ironic, they're usually being sincere.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Not to rain on your parade but almost every European state-funded radio network has or has had a third or second channel dedicated to more 'pensive' stuff like classical music. In Italy we have Radio 3, which is pretty much the same thing as the Radio 3 you get in England, and I think it started broadcasting this type of music before it too. As far as I know it's still that way. Really, nothing new there.

Well, quite. I can only talk for the countries I know, namely, the country of my nationality. It doesn't surprise me in the least that Europe has a relationship with classical music - if anything, Britain is the weak link of classical in Europe.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by Glice

Another thing - if someone likes something that you don't, they're not being ironic, they're usually being sincere.

for what it's worth, this is something that I really like about you.

you have never once seemed to express an opinion of taste based upon how the masses may perceive you.

happy hardcore? ok!

lady sov? sure, why not.


it's downright inspirational. like fresh air, you are.

Canonised racism.