[phoenix]

Originally Posted by knox

renewable energy industries are still capitalist industries.

absolutely.

[knox]

Originally Posted by phoenix

Sorry, my (idealistic) views sit somewhere between socialist commie, and fascism ruled by the kind of person who does not exist. So by 'work long term' I really mean that I find it kind of ridiculous and not a solution to anything other than money pilfering and time wasting by people with not much better to do than pretend they give a fuck.

Politics is such a boring discussion for its own sake. It's sometimes nice with tea and cake, though.

are you saying that ideally you would like nice fascism?
or that a fascist regime ruled by someone you look up to would be ok?

[phoenix]

no one has the right skillz for the job.

[phoenix]

my ideal society would probably consist of only a few hundred people.. but their possibilties of recreation as a unique person or past existence would be infinate.

really, I enjoy sci fi and spiritualism and art a little too much. I'm not very realistic.

[knox]

maybe you should just join a cult.

you know, like those ones in farms with a spiritual enlightened leader.

and finger painting.

[floatingslowly]

there is no finger painting in my cult.

unless, of course, you count smearing goat's blood on our naked bodies as we wait for the One True Mothership to arrive.

[knox]

is there any other kind of finger painting?

[GeneticKiss]

Capitalism, like everything else, can be used for good or ill.

On one hand, for as much as people in wealthy industrialized nations (such as those inhabited by the posters on this very board) whine about the rich ruining everything (mind you, a point that is not at all lost on me), the fact remains that anyone who has the will to succeed on a financial level can do so much easier in a capitalist society/economy than in any other. They can then use their money to better the world around them by donating to good causes or giving others a chance to succeed money-wise (i.e. giving them a job).

On the other hand, greed is the source of pretty much every problem in the world, and it takes a certain amount of greed to maximize your success.

Also, the primary reason why Americans fear socialism is because "socialist" was the second 's' in USSR. Foolish, considering that Russian communists were about as socialist as Donald Trump...

[EVOLghost]

Fuck politics. The talk is boring. I don't like to talk about how we SHOULD be governed. It don't matter. We gonna get screwed in the end...oh well.

[knox]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

Capitalism, like everything else, can be used for good or ill.

On one hand, for as much as people in wealthy industrialized nations (such as those inhabited by the posters on this very board) whine about the rich ruining everything (mind you, a point that is not at all lost on me), the fact remains that anyone who has the will to succeed on a financial level can do so much easier in a capitalist society/economy than in any other. They can then use their money to better the world around them by donating to good causes or giving others a chance to succeed money-wise (i.e. giving them a job).

On the other hand, greed is the source of pretty much every problem in the world, and it takes a certain amount of greed to maximize your success.

Also, the primary reason why Americans fear socialism is because "socialist" was the second 's' in USSR. Foolish, considering that Russian communists were about as socialist as Donald Trump...

I also lol a bit when people from rich industrialized countries in comfortable houses, with toilets and hot water, and ipods and frozen pizzas, who have never lived in a overtly authoritarian regime, complain about shit capitalism is.

[Green_mind]

Originally Posted by knox

renewable energy industries are still capitalist industries.

yeah of course they are, I never said they're not.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by EVOLghost

Fuck politics. The talk is boring. I don't like to talk about how we SHOULD be governed. It don't matter. We gonna get screwed in the end...oh well.

talk like that is why i'm not crushing a politicians skull with my boot right now, disappointing and boring really.

[chicka]

less government the libertarian way.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by knox

I also lol a bit when people from rich industrialized countries in comfortable houses, with toilets and hot water, and ipods and frozen pizzas, who have never lived in a overtly authoritarian regime, complain about shit capitalism is.

just because things are worse in some other countries (which is probably due in some part to the west -i.e. capitalism- screwing them over) doesn't mean we shouldn't try and improve our own, we have people living in severe poverty and plenty of homeless etc too.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by knox

renewable energy industries are still capitalist industries.

yeah but there's less money to be made in renewable energy sources than there is in something finite

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by knox

when people say people are too stupid to make decisions, i think what they really mean is people don't have enough unbiased information, which applies to us all.

i think they mean other people don't have enough unbiased information that the person saying that agrees with, if you see what i mean

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by knox

but i wonder for a moment, i think capitalism in america probably means something other than MY idea of capitalism.

however, it can't be capitalism that's evil, it's certainly people, and no system would change that.

personally, i'd prefer to live in a system where at least i got some hope or loophole to try and overcome or expose that evil, insignificant as it could be, i could at least hope, it's better than nothing.

let's face that people and selfish and corrupted with power. it's slightly better to have that power in the hands of a few giant corporations that we could try and regulate and fail, than ONE institution that decides all.

well capitalism was designed with the explicit purpose of extracting wealth from the lower levels of society and taking it to the top, which isn't a very just way of making an economy. and it's not like there's an either or choice between capitalism and authoritarian/totalitarian systems, we could all strive for something better, i.e. a more even balance of wealth that doesn't go in to recession every 10 years

[knox]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

just because things are worse in some other countries (which is probably due in some part to the west -i.e. capitalism- screwing them over) doesn't mean we shouldn't try and improve our own, we have people living in severe poverty and plenty of homeless etc too.

I absolutely agree and that's not what I implied at all.

I just said it's interesting to criticize a system when you have no experience of being inserted in any other system, or even know what's like to be at the highest and lowest of that system.

But now that you mentioned it, countries have exploited and fucked other countries way before capitalism or democracy.

Perhaps it would be ideal that we realize that improving things for some is improvement for all. However, if you mean the UK, I don't think the definition of severe poverty (malnutrition, starvation, lack of medical care) really applies to anyone here.

As for unbiased information, I don't have it, no one has it. No one can get it.

There is one force in the world that is the most powerful, and that is media. By controling what you know of the world, and choosing/editing the information you can reach, one controls everything.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Is the Left now a spent force within mainstream politics? I don't mean any kind of Left represented by New Labour or even Obama but a socialist Left. Or should we all just learn to love capitalism and be done with it?

love? sure!

 

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by knox

maybe you should just join a cult.

you know, like those ones in farms with a spiritual enlightened leader.

and finger painting.

aaaaa haaa haaaa haaa haaa