[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by blunderbuss

I didn't see them in 1986, but I saw them in 1987 and it was dull as ditchwater. Saw them play a greatest hits set in 2007, and it was 100x better.

They got better at writing songs pretty much after the first album. I don't think they ever went completely shit.

[Pookie]

I saw them in 1986 and to be honest already by then their reputation was such that I don't think I could fairly judge their performance because of it. But I'm glad I got to see them while they were young and arsey.

And it was a rare gig where they played a full set. And they were upstaged somewhat by the support band.

I saw them again in 1998 when they weren't "in a good place" artistically and they were pretty dull.

[Starcat]

Originally Posted by blunderbuss

I didn't see them in 1986, but I saw them in 1987 and it was dull as ditchwater. Saw them play a greatest hits set in 2007, and it was 100x better.

A Mary Chain greatest hits set is Psychocandy, verbatim.

Their songs may have been better written on later albums, but it was at the loss of their noisy, dissonant sound that made them something more than a run-of-the-mill alt-rock band.

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by Starcat

A Mary Chain greatest hits set is Psychocandy, verbatim.
.

That wouldn't be a greatest hits. A best of perhaps.

And the term "alt-rock" wouldn't have existed then and if it did JAMC were more comparable to other British indie bands of the time (Primal Scream, The Jazz Butcher, Biff Bang Pow! etc).

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

They got better at writing songs pretty much after the first album. I don't think they ever went completely shit.

I don't know if I'd agree that they wrote better songs after that but it's arguable and certainly a handful are on a par. I just think they're one of those bands that had one big statement in them which (album-wise) they made perfectly on Psychocandy, with everything after that feeling (to me at least) a bit too much like them trying to forge a career. Saying all that, I do have a soft spot for Darklands.

[blunderbuss]

Originally Posted by Starcat

A Mary Chain greatest hits set is Psychocandy, verbatim.

Their songs may have been better written on later albums, but it was at the loss of their noisy, dissonant sound that made them something more than a run-of-the-mill alt-rock band.

Don't believe the hype, kiddo. The only thing that stopped JAMC from being a run of the mill indie band from the very off was the fact that they had a reputation for somewhat fiery live shows, and that's the reason that the music press picked up on them, nothing to do with the music. And Psychocandy contains just as much tosh as any other indie album of the time (and just as much as any of their subsequent albums), but it has been hidden beneath the noise (which wasn't something as unique to them at the time as mythology would like you to believe, you couldn't move for noise and distortion in UK indie music at the time).

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by blunderbuss

...you couldn't move for noise and distortion in UK indie music at the time.

Balderdash.

[Starcat]

Originally Posted by Pookie

That wouldn't be a greatest hits. A best of perhaps.

And the term "alt-rock" wouldn't have existed then and if it did JAMC were more comparable to other British indie bands of the time (Primal Scream, The Jazz Butcher, Biff Bang Pow! etc).

I say "alt-rock" as an insult to late- Mary Chain albums. I'm saying that if you listened to them now, they'd sound like something cranked out by any of the 50 billion generic rockbands polluting the world.

Originally Posted by blunderbuss

Don't believe the hype, kiddo. The only thing that stopped JAMC from being a run of the mill indie band from the very off was the fact that they had a reputation for somewhat fiery live shows, and that's the reason that the music press picked up on them, nothing to do with the music. And Psychocandy contains just as much tosh as any other indie album of the time (and just as much as any of their subsequent albums), but it has been hidden beneath the noise (which wasn't something as unique to them at the time as mythology would like you to believe, you couldn't move for noise and distortion in UK indie music at the time).

I'm not speaking from the hype, I'm speaking from having listened to all of their albums thoroughly. The noise might have been the only thing going for them on Psychocandy, but if noise was the only thing needed to save their other albums from being boring as hell then it's their own fault for abandoning it.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by blunderbuss

I didn't see them in 1986, but I saw them in 1987 and it was dull as ditchwater. Saw them play a greatest hits set in 2007, and it was 100x better.

I've seen them in recent years too, but I guess I just assumed it would be the other way around, and that I was seeing them long after their live peak. But I was in first grade in 1986, so I'll take your word for it.

[super_charger]

I was thinking about seeing them until I saw tickets cost $70. No thanks. I saw them and a bunch of other bands at lollapawatever in the 90s for $30 total. I doubt they're twice as good today as they were back then.

[Genteel Death]

I don't know what to say. Perhaps in 15 years time people will laugh at anyone picking up an instrument to stir up some excitement altogether.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Starcat

The noise might have been the only thing going for them on Psychocandy, but if noise was the only thing needed to save their other albums from being boring as hell then it's their own fault for abandoning it.

I think what elevated Psychocandy above its peers wasn't the noise (as Pookie and Blunderbuss have pointed out) but the songwriting. I don't think that album would've endured much beyond the hype were it not for the fact that beneath the feedback there's some absolutely classic pop songs. I heard lots of distortion pedals in the mid 80s but not many songs as brilliant as You Trip Me Up, The Hardest Walk or Just Like Honey.

[Starcat]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I think what elevated Psychocandy above its peers wasn't the noise (as Pookie and Blunderbuss have pointed out) but the songwriting. I don't think that album would've endured much beyond the hype were it not for the fact that beneath the feedback there's some absolutely classic pop songs. I heard lots of distortion pedals in the mid 80s but not many songs as brilliant as You Trip Me Up, The Hardest Walk or Just Like Honey.

I agree... But I can't quantify whether or not Psychocandy was any better than some grimy British noise band that played a couple of grimy gigs in the grimy bars of Leeds or Manchester and put out a few grimy EPs and then all died grimy deaths. Because I wasn't there and haven't heard it all yet. But I'm prepared to contest Pookie and Blunderbuss if what they're saying is that Psychocandy was just noise but that their later albums were somehow better

[SpaceCadetHayden]

i'm going

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by Starcat

I agree... But I can't quantify whether or not Psychocandy was any better than some grimy British noise band that played a couple of grimy gigs in the grimy bars of Leeds or Manchester and put out a few grimy EPs and then all died grimy deaths. Because I wasn't there and haven't heard it all yet. But I'm prepared to contest Pookie and Blunderbuss if what they're saying is that Psychocandy was just noise but that their later albums were somehow better

I'm certainly not saying that. The opposite in fact. I'm saying that there was a lot of noise around but JAMC were more than just noise. The first three singles (Upside Down, Never Understand & You Trip Me Up) were up there with the best tunes of the time (along with this and this).

Psychocandy had more great songs but was never a great album. And after that they continued to produce albums with great songs and a lot of filler. To me Automatic was probably their best album overall.

[Genteel Death]

Let's all take a minute to reflect and watch this brilliant video on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yLOk...ature=youtu.be

We'll be back at 6:15 pm for canapes and drinks, followed by an insightful lecture on Patti Smith's hair by Sway.

See you later.

[truncated]

I wanted to laugh. But I didn't.

[Genteel Death]

Thoroughly pissed off about that.

[Starcat]

Why Automatic over Psychocandy, though? What did it do better?

[Pookie]

The best songs on Psychocandy are better than any on Automatic but Automatic is a better album overall.