[ThePits]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

its not my twisted logic, the problems in Africa, particularly these ethnic conflicts, are often (as in Rwanda) DIRECTLY RELATED TO EUROPEAN COLONIALISM, specifically the arbitrary division of African borders and the imaginary nations they created with out regard of the people who lived there. In Rwanda it was exclusively the BRITISH who created racism between so-called Hutu and Tutsi, a division which NEVER existed prior to the 1930s, which was formalized in government in the 1950s (again by the Brits);

and zimbabwe, shit I dont think i even need to begin on the problems that Europe created for Zimbabwe, but I am affraid I might offend your sensibilites as good brit, you savage bastard. get over yourself, Britain sucks, america sucks and together they have destroyed the world as it should have been, and replaced it with a hell created in their image. sorry, i just must be the last honest white person out there who looks at things as they are, and not as we would like them to be.

Hmm so its all the "whites" fault?

The "whites" created tribes in Africa?

I really have to hear how the British created the Hutu and Tutsi tribes and got them to kill each other

As for Zimbabwe, considering Mugabe and the regime that has been there since Britain forced the end of the old regime and oversaw with international monitors an election that gave "blacks", the ovewhelming majority in the old Rhodesia, the vote, how exactly have "whites" been responsible for the genocide perpetrated by Mugabe?

Care to explain to me how "whites" are responsible for the slavery that still exists in Africa?

"Blacks" enslaving and selling people to other "blacks" in countries run by their own people?

You call yourself the last honest white person?

You are another "white" boy trying to prove your "black" credentials in order to fit in

Well heres the bad news, you are "white", and no matter how often you play the card, you are always going to be "white"

Live with it

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

The human problem, in general, is the psyche's obedience to its master, which is fear. Instinctual fear is one thing. It helps keep us alive in accordance with natural selection and natural law itself. Instinctual fear cuts right through our bullshit filter.

I'm not familliar enough with Kiekegaard to know if he considers self-made fear an inessential part of our human make-up or whether he thinks of it as a basic, insummountable factor in our being. If it's the latter, which for Freud it certainly has to be, then ultimately it's just another type of 'instinctual fear' - one of the drives. This would have to mean that power (as a potential source of fear) is itself equally natural. However, even given this, and the very point that renders Darwin and Nietzche (but not Hegel or - more problematically - Marx) intolerable in anything beyond the most primitive point in human history, is the fact that power is almost always un-naturally allocated. The only instance I see of natural power allocation is that between an infant and an adult. Otherwise, as we know, the greatest gateway to power is wealth which is obtained either by good fortune or labour (depending on the circumstances) rather than nature. If I understand you correctly, and that power is indeed a natural force (which I believe it is) then there's the obvious possibility that the wrong people may have it, and that oppression may not stem from the withholding of freedom, but the denial of power to its rightfull owners - freedom is not power, and vice versa.

Which sort of brings us back to Marx I suppose, but only sort of, in that I definitely don't believe labour to be a natural phenomenon, any more than principles of ownership. If fear is natural, then so is power. Consequently neither can be 'earned' or even allocated because of some idea of 'justice' - natural justice, like karma, being something that frankly doesn't exist outside of New Age bookshops and vigilantee groups.

The question then has to be who does warrant power, on what basis do they warrant it, and what purpose should it serve?

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

The question then has to be who does warrant power, on what basis do they warrant it, and what purpose should it serve?

 

Well, my British friend, this is the best that civilization has ever come up with and is likely to ever come up with in answer to those very questions.
Who warrants power? We The People
On what basis do they warrant it? through fair democratic representation in accordance with their basic human rights
What purpose should it serve? The power of We The People, if instituted properly and its spirit subsequently safeguarded through the generations, should serve We The People.

And some have ideas that will revitalize the U.S. Constitution.

www.amoreperfectconstitution.com

____________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Will_to_Power
Nietzsche's The Will To Power is a mishmash of aphorisms and journal scribblings which was largely assembled posthumously. At his best, Nietzsche is a dark poet such as in Thus Spake Zarathustra. When he's good, he's attacking Hegel in his own roundabout and often contradictory way, and when he's bad, which is most of the time, he's really ridiculously juvenile and downright goofy.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by ThePits

Hmm so its all the "whites" fault?

The "whites" created tribes in Africa?

I really have to hear how the British created the Hutu and Tutsi tribes and got them to kill each other

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwanda

my mistake, it is not the British it was the Belgians, and for this confusion I am truly sorry, but none-the-less, whoever the foreign influence was, the arguement is that the genocide in Rwanda has European origins, which is true...

YES! EXACTLY! There were no tribes in africa before Eurocentric definitions of what tribes are was applied to africans through European colonial adminstration and beaurcracy (ie, calling a person in Rwanda a 'Hutu' on a piece of paper and then perpeuating this identity as if it were engraved in stone)...

African identity before European intervention was one of transition and constant adaptation. There were few solid "national" or "ethnic" groups with strictly defined separations between other "nation" or "ethnic" groups. Europeans in many circumstances created these divisions in a divide and conquer philisophy.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwanda

my mistake, it is not the British it was the Belgians, and for this confusion I am truly sorry, but none-the-less, whoever the foreign influence was, the arguement is that the genocide in Rwanda has European origins, which is true...

YES! EXACTLY! There were no tribes in africa before Eurocentric definitions of what tribes are was applied to africans through European colonial adminstration and beaurcracy (ie, calling a person in Rwanda a 'Hutu' on a piece of paper and then perpeuating this identity as if it were engraved in stone)...

African identity before European intervention was one of transition and constant adaptation. There were few solid "national" or "ethnic" groups with strictly defined separations between other "nation" or "ethnic" groups. Europeans in many circumstances created these divisions in a divide and conquer philisophy.

So you maintain the "whites" created these tribes?

Perhaps you could also tell me who invented the mutlitude of languages spoken across Africa before the "whites" ever set foot in the place

[!@#$%!]

while colonizers often pitted groups against each other, and colonizers of later times have been mostly white (the conquest of india was a prime example, but the japanese were in manchuria, and the hittites in egypt, and the tartars in china, and the turks all over the middle east and eastern europe), humans have been slaughtering each other for a myriad reasons since the beginning of times, reasons like what side of the bread to put the butter on...

 

skin color is just an excuse like any other bullshit excuse to kill people.

[SynthethicalY]

Why won't this thread die?

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

while colonizers often pitted groups against each other, and colonizers of later times have been mostly white (the conquest of india was a prime example, but the japanese were in manchuria, and the hittites in egypt, and the tartars in china, and the turks all over the middle east and eastern europe), humans have been slaughtering each other for a myriad reasons since the beginning of times, reasons like what side of the bread to put the butter on...

 

skin color is just an excuse like any other bullshit excuse to kill people.

Well said

That deserves rep

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SynthethicalY

Why won't this thread die?

 

you have to aim for the head

[SynthethicalY]

I think both sides are right. There I said it.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

 

In the absence of anything better, at least anything that's actually found a concrete social form, I suppose I have to agree. As much as I wish I didn't. I was sort of hoping that it might come from some less obvious region of the universe but, for all its ills America, at least in that document, does seem to have laid out the best model.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

In the absence of anything better, at least anything that's actually found a concrete social form, I suppose I have to agree. As much as I wish I didn't. I was sort of hoping that it might come from some less obvious region of the universe but, for all its ills America, at least in that document, does seem to have laid out the best model.

Have you seen the proposed european constitution?

[demonrail666]

I haven't no. Do you have a link?

[ThePits]

No I am trying to find the damned thing as its being discussed at the moment amongst euro "politicians"

[ThePits]

Oh silly me, I forgot its not a constitution, its a treaty!

[atari 2600]

I just saw a news report from nearby Prince William County, Virginia that disturbed me.

Turns out there's a referendum ballot about illegal immigration. The county wants authorization to allot fourteen million dollars to police the issue. Well, the county's school system is currently in a thirty-two million dollar deficit shortfall. I suppose those hicks (the woman ranting on TV was some middle-age battle axe in what appeared to be Wal*Mart clothing) don't want to have their taxes raised for schools, but as long as it reinforces their irrational fears and hatred, everything is a-okay.

What these morons fail to realize is that it is the federal government's responsibility to enforce the existing laws that require companies to verify an employee's legal residency status and that these laws are intentionally not being enforced due to political corruption. And you just know these irate rednecks are the same ones who vote Republican.

So the mob approves 14 million and the only thing it guarantees is that no illegal immigrants in the county can get business licenses!

Well, some fat cat is partying it up tonight in anticipation of all that taxpayer money hitting their coffers soon, that's for damn sure. What a bunch of friggen morons.

The U.S.A. is fast becoming a nation of imbeciles and I don't know how much more I can take. It seems to me that it's only a matter of time before the historical revisionists completely take over and strip away our liberties and human rights. And it seems to me that every generation just gets stupider and stupider and hence, only more malleable to being completely controlled and programmed. After all, the young people of today, to list but a few general problematic areas, go to shitty, underfunded schools, with shitty, underpaid teachers and have shitty, substandard food for lunch in the cafeteria. It's sad...the good people should have won the big fight. We've had so many chances to take the money out of politics during the relatively peaceful time of the Cold War. Abuses of contracts were being discovered back then and people were outraged, but somehow they lost their way by being distracted with bullshit. I really do believe we are doomed and I really believe I must seriously start making plans to leave this country.

[ThePits]

I dont see anything wrong with spending money on removing people from a country who are there illegally

Thats the whole point in having laws, to have them enforced

The day we start abitrarily ignoring one law because we dont like it is the day everyone is on a slippery slope to anarchy

If you dont like the law, campaign to get it changed

You mentioned human rights, what about the rights of people to decide who should and who shouldnt be in their country?

Even the majority have rights

[atari 2600]

It's the federal government's responsibility. If the hicks want to do something about their own county by raising money themselves, then that's their right with a majority vote, but hell, why essentially take away 14 million from their local school systems that are already 32 million in debt?

Wouldn't it be more effective and reasonable for these hicks just to educate themselves on the origins of the issue and find a solution by endorsing the correct candidates for congress and the presidency? And doesn't it make more sense to do a county-wide petition and send that to the appropriate departments of the federal government?

Originally Posted by ThePits

The day we start abitrarily ignoring one law because we dont like it is the day everyone is on a slippery slope to anarchy

Dude, the RICO Act is being ignored by the Feds. Through intentional lack of enforcement, they allow companies to hire illegal aliens to make money for kickbacks, campaign contributions, and in an implicit exchange for the Mexicans that are here legally to vote Republican. And as the cherry on top, the intentional lack of federal immigration enforcement also manages to get people flared-up and divided politically over a hot-button wedge issue so that they will be putty in the hands of their respective puppetmaster.

No county, not even motherfucking Los Angeles County, needs an extra 14 million to police immigration. I'm sorry, but they have enough taxpayer money and resources toget the job done on their existing budgets; they just aren't doing their job. And no one needs to agree to pay one extra cent in federal taxes either to get the job done under some convoluted federal plan either. All we need are honest and capable leaders in government. Build a wall you say? More National Guard troops at the borders? That's some stupid motherfucking shit, brother. How fucking hard is it to drive around until a bunch of Mexicans working are spotted and do on-site inspections that force a company representative to verify that they are all legal? How hard is it to make sure manufacturing plants are up to federal immigration standards? You know, it's not like there are all that many manufacturing plants in the whole country anymore now that our asses have been sold out to China.

All that needs to happen is the forcing of compliance with immigration law. This can be done simply. All we need is an additional law that levies a heavy, financially crippling fine to any company that cannot produce documentation in a reasonable amount of time and basically assumes they are guilty if they cannot readily produce the proper paperwork that checks out as verifiable. This will force companies to respect the laws of the United States and be ready to be investigated and it will provide law enforcement a tool to get the job done in a speedy manner. Should companies be profiled based on the national origin of many of their employees? You're damn straight, they should. It will save taxpayer money to go after the obvious lawbreakers and not waste time policing a bunch of companies that have no interest or history in hiring cheap, illegal labor. But of course, you won't hear any politician proferring such a common sense approach; after all, the problem would be on its way to being solved and that's just not how they do things. The pig-fuckers are only in it to make motherfucking money, you see, because they thrive on strife and societal problems only bring them prosperity.

The whole referendum ballot thing today in Prince William County is basically nothing more than a boondoggle scam that appeals to people's hatred to get them to fork over their cash. And in the end, the entire effort will accomplish absolutely nothing.

It's fucking sick.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by ThePits

I dont see anything wrong with spending money on removing people from a country who are there illegally

Thats the whole point in having laws, to have them enforced

ha ha ha ha. until very recently, a number of states had laws against sodomy-- a "crime" which in some places included oral sex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_..._United_States

im sure some sorry cockbags wanted them enforced while they were in the books, but what a joke it must have been.

[SynthethicalY]

I say deport them all, to some island and let them survive there.

Of course I am only kidding.