[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by ThePits

I'll give Darwin another go, its been years since I read any of his work

I have a pretty clear idea of what race means and ethnicity for that matter, and not just the dictionary given definitions

I think we just celebrated 125 years since Darwin died, I'd like to think that ideas about race, ethnicity, and Darwinism have moved on a little in that time

you'd think, but most people don't even have a clue about darwin really. they all focus on "survival of the fittest" while ignoring that genetic diversity is, in evolutionary theory, key to the survival of a species.

[Rob Instigator]

all the unicorn horn is just narwhal tusk!

 

Know Yr Source!

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

all the unicorn horn is just narwhal tusk!

 

Know Yr Source!

ssshhh.. there might be chinese listening (and I'm set to make a killing [of money, not narwhals]).

[ThePits]

[quote=!@#$%!]damn thread, keeps pulling me back.

the dictionary features word coinage, not the accuracy or reality of those words. when you want to study a subject you don't read dictionary entries on it, do you?quote]

No you don't read a dictionary to study a subject, you use it to define what you are studying in the first place

Without a clear definition of what you seek to study where do you start?

As to whether race exists or not, if it doesn't, all the scientists who study races have got it wrong, as has the whole "race" industry such as lawyers, psychologists, geneticists etc

And we few, we happy few, on a message board have got it right?

EUREKA!

[ThePits]

 

Now thats what I call a horn!

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by ThePits

the whole "race" industry such as lawyers, psychologists, geneticists etc

you forgot NASCAR.

just sayin'.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by ThePits

As to whether race exists or not, if it doesn't, all the scientists who study races have got it wrong, as has the whole "race" industry such as lawyers, psychologists, geneticists etc

And we few, we happy few, on a message board have got it right?

EUREKA!

what scientists study races? geneticists study genetics among social groups. anthropologists study social groups. medical doctors study the very few differences between "races" such as black people being more susceptible to sickle cell anemia and white people being 99% of all serial killers.
it is just a statistical category and means nothing when discussing humanity. all it does is divide humans into extremely blurry and hazy groups.

[!@#$%!]

[quote=ThePits]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

damn thread, keeps pulling me back.

the dictionary features word coinage, not the accuracy or reality of those words. when you want to study a subject you don't read dictionary entries on it, do you?quote]

No you don't read a dictionary to study a subject, you use it to define what you are studying in the first place

Without a clear definition of what you seek to study where do you start?

As to whether race exists or not, if it doesn't, all the scientists who study races have got it wrong, as has the whole "race" industry such as lawyers, psychologists, geneticists etc

And we few, we happy few, on a message board have got it right?

EUREKA!

no, dictionaries do not provide scientific or technical definitions. dictionaries are for schoolchildren and newspaper writers.

im asking you to distinguish between race as a POLITICAL notion and race as a BIOLOGICAL notion. the dictionary and most people conflate both. people who study the subject don't.

the "race" that we discuss on a daily basis in bars and marketplaces is a POLITICAL notion, but people are deluded to think that it has a SCIENTIFIC basis.

words are funny things. they are sloppy containers for SEMANTIC FIELDS. any sort of worthy discussion on that subject requires a strict definition of the subject at hand, and common dictionaries are not good at that at all. much of the work of academia is about defining what words actually mean.

you remember the recent upheaval about pluto not being a planet? if the gross physical word presents such problems, imagine what challenge social and biological phenomena present for any serious inquiry. i mean serious. on the internet, we are all talking shite.

[Rob Instigator]

I am talking GRADE A PATEURIZED SHITE!

[floatingslowly]

I tried really hard to find a picture of a NASCAR unicorn, but apparently they don't exist.

[ThePits]

[quote=!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by ThePits

no, dictionaries do not provide scientific or technical definitions. dictionaries are for schoolchildren and newspaper writers.

im asking you to distinguish between race as a POLITICAL notion and race as a BIOLOGICAL notion. the dictionary and most people conflate both. people who study the subject don't.

the "race" that we discuss on a daily basis in bars and marketplaces is a POLITICAL notion, but people are deluded to think that it has a SCIENTIFIC basis.

words are funny things. they are sloppy containers for SEMANTIC FIELDS. any sort of worthy discussion on that subject requires a strict definition of the subject at hand, and common dictionaries are not good at that at all. much of the work of academia is about defining what words actually mean.

you remember the recent upheaval about pluto not being a planet? if the gross physical word presents such problems, imagine what challenge social and biological phenomena present for any serious inquiry. i mean serious. on the internet, we are all talking shite.

Yes I know about the political hijacking of the word "race" and despise everything politically motivated exploiters have doen with it

As for the biological definition of race, are you saying that there is no scientific evidence as to the existence of different races?

What was the outcome of the pluto thing anyway? Is it still a planet?

Oh and that pasteurised shite, is that skimmed or semi skimmed?

[Rob Instigator]

there is no definite way to tell genetically if someone is caucasian, negroid, oriental, or any of the other made-up "races"
there are just markers, and genetic studies have shown that at LEAST 35% of super white americans have african blood and genes. the same goes for black americans. over 40% of them have "white european genes"

blind testing cannot determine for sure what the race of a subject is.


pluto is NOT a planet. It is a Planetessimal. or some such shit. there are objects in the kuiper belt as big or bigger than pluto. the distinction is purely for classification though, as anything that rotates the sun is a sattelite of the sun.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by ThePits

I would love to see the crime figures broken down into which groups commit the largest percentage of which crimes

Lets see exactly who is committing all those thousands of murders you refer to

And how many of them are illegal immigrants

Anyone know if those stats are available?

in the US white males commit the most gun violence. yr innuendo was rather lowbrow...
check US gov websites the info is all there, I dont have the time right now.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

in the US white males commit the most gun violence. yr innuendo was rather lowbrow...
check US gov websites the info is all there, I dont have the time right now.

Hey you mentioned the thousands of murders and bodies in the streets, I just asked who was responsible

Sow a breeze, reap a whirlwind

[demonrail666]

The whole race issue has just become so bogged down in politically correct dogma that a guy can't even say that curry gives him indigestion these days without coming across as some kind of SS officer.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by ThePits

DNA also confirms different races



I also fail to see what is wrong with the term "race"

Shouldn't we all be proud of our heritage, origins, and culture?

Isn't it the fact that because there are different races that life is such a rich tapestry of culture and diversity?

No DNA does not confirm race. in fact there are no genes that make you a race, there are genetic markers that tell you who you are related to, but these do not dictate race in the concept which you are arguing.

and also, no we should not be proud of our heritiage or origins or culture if such pride comes directly at the expense of other people.

[!@#$%!]

[quote=ThePits]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

Yes I know about the political hijacking of the word "race" and despise everything politically motivated exploiters have doen with it

As for the biological definition of race, are you saying that there is no scientific evidence as to the existence of different races?

What was the outcome of the pluto thing anyway? Is it still a planet?

Oh and that pasteurised shite, is that skimmed or semi skimmed?

that's gotta be definitely FULL CREAM.

about the scientific evidence-- there is evidence of genetic drift in isolated populations. the more isolated, the more "different" you are. that does not equate a "race" in the sense of people talk about it.

i think i already posted you this elsewhere, but in the early XX century people were calling italians and irish "races".

"race" is what politics want it to be. genes are a whole different beast beyond the comprehension of popular demagogues of all stripes.

but there is and has always been plenty of crossfucking. if there are races, then we are all mongrels.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

in the US white males commit the most gun violence. yr innuendo was rather lowbrow...
check US gov websites the info is all there, I dont have the time right now.

OK heres some facts

These are UK related as I am still trying to find the US statistics

In London 70% of gun crime is committed by Black youths (Murder Blues, BB1, 2005).

85% of robbery suspects in London were black (Race Against Crime, Channel 4, 1999).

Ethnic groups in the capital comprise 22% of the Greater London population

There doesn't seem to be any figures as to how many of the criminals are illegal immigrants unfortunately

I'll be interested to see if you are right about the same statistics in the USA

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

in the US white males commit the most gun violence. yr innuendo was rather lowbrow...
check US gov websites the info is all there, I dont have the time right now.

"African-Americans are victims of nearly half the murders committed in the United States despite making up only 13 percent of the population, a report published Thursday showed.

Around 8,000 of nearly 16,500 murder victims in 2005, or 49 percent, were black Americans, according to the report released by the statistics bureau of the Department of Justice.
Broken down by gender, 6,800 black men were murdered in 2005, making up more than half the nearly 13,000 male murder victims.
Black women made up 35 percent, or 1,200, of the nearly 3,500 female homicide victims.
Young black men aged between 17 and 29 bore a disproportionately high burden in the grim statistics, making up 51 percent of African-American murder victims.
The percentage of white male murder victims in the same age group was 37 percent.
More than half the murders of blacks took place in densely populated urban areas.
Firearms were involved 77 percent of the time in homicides involving black people and around 60 percent of the time in murders of whites.
Most murder victims -- 93 percent of blacks and 85 percent of whites -- were killed by someone of their own race.
Gang violence was involved in around five percent of homicides with black victims against seven percent for white victims. In percentage terms, whites were twice as likely to be killed by a current or former partner than blacks -- 12 percent of whites were murdered by a life partner against six percent of blacks. "

Unfortunately again no statistics for illegal immigrants

But you know what these figures show?

African americans seem as determined to kill other african americans as much as whites seem hell bent on killing other whites

Kind of destroys the myth of whites committing most of the gun crime

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by ThePits

OK heres some facts

These are UK related as I am still trying to find the US statistics

In London 70% of gun crime is committed by Black youths (Murder Blues, BB1, 2005).

85% of robbery suspects in London were black (Race Against Crime, Channel 4, 1999).

Ethnic groups in the capital comprise 22% of the Greater London population

There doesn't seem to be any figures as to how many of the criminals are illegal immigrants unfortunately

I'll be interested to see if you are right about the same statistics in the USA

interesting fact(oid)s. what does "black" mean, in this context?