[Severian]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Also from The Washington Post:

Tax reform is 'not good for me, believe me,' Trump said. Don't.

This is when shit gets scary for me. Believing in magical tax cuts that pay for themselves is worse than believing in God. (OK, it's close, but still). Not that these fuckers necessarily believe in them. If they defend them on principle, they're idiots; if they do because it's good for their yachts, they are fucking evil.

https://news.google.com/news/story/d...M2RDtgDM?hl=en

It’s way worse than believing in god. Believing in God in and of itself doesn’t do anything or affect anyone adversely. Just believing in god is a totally internal consequence-free act for anyone but the believer. Also, there’s nothing wrong with it, even if you think it’s dumb. There’s something wrong with allowing belief in a bogus ancient tome to affect public policy, or the way you parent your kids, but just believing in god is not “bad.”

I believe in god, but if you looked at my life, choices, politics, etc. you’d swear I was an atheist. It’s a thing that lives in my brain that I know is irrational, so I treat it as a flight of fancy.

Believing in magical tax cuts that pay for themselves results in voting for people who believe in that. It also makes you a shitty financial steward and a shitty participant in the economy, so there are consequences.

Belief in god, by itself, should not offend or upset anyone. Acting crazy based on religious nonsense is different.

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by Severian

Acting crazy based on religious nonsense is different.

Believing in God IS acting crazy. Anyway, let's put imaginary friends aside for now and stay on magical tax cuts:

I helped create the GOP tax myth. Trump is wrong: Tax cuts don’t equal growth.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Believing in God IS acting crazy. Anyway, let's put imaginary friends aside for now and stay on magical tax cuts:

I helped create the GOP tax myth. Trump is wrong: Tax cuts don’t equal growth.

Believing in something is just believing in something. Acting on that belief is different.

Sorry, but it’s extremely unfair to call faith crazy, or equate it to socially dangerous behavior. Like I said, I “believe” in God; or rather, I don’t believe there *definitely* is no god because I understand how silly it would be to take a stance like that. It’s a choice I make to believe in something pleasant that is probably not true. It’s something for dark moments. It’s hope. That’s all. I don’t believe in the Bible and I don’t subscribe to any religion, but I choose to naively believe that there’s a source of complete benevolent goodness out there.

I know it’s probbaly not true, and I’d never try to get someone to believe that it is.

I actually think that having absolute certainty about the truth/falsenesss of a fantastical and non-falsifiable idea is more crazy than being open to the possibility that it might be true. You’d have to think that somehow you knew the unknowable. That’s much more crazy than saying, “It’s unknowable, but I choose to believe it might be true.”

[ilduclo]

I believe in randomness.

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by Severian

Believing in something is just believing in something. Acting on that belief is different.

"You know, I'd get it if people were just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they WANT the holes. They wanna LIVE in the holes. And they go NUTS when someone else pours dirt in their holes. CLIMB OUT OF YOUR HOLES, PEOPLE!"

 

Originally Posted by Severian

Sorry, but it’s extremely unfair to call faith crazy, or equate it to socially dangerous behavior. Like I said, I “believe” in God; or rather, I don’t believe there *definitely* is no god because I understand how silly it would be to take a stance like that. It’s a choice I make to believe in something pleasant that is probably not true. It’s something for dark moments. It’s hope. That’s all. I don’t believe in the Bible and I don’t subscribe to any religion, but I choose to naively believe that there’s a source of complete benevolent goodness out there.

I know it’s probbaly not true, and I’d never try to get someone to believe that it is.

I actually think that having absolute certainty about the truth/falsenesss of a fantastical and non-falsifiable idea is more crazy than being open to the possibility that it might be true. You’d have to think that somehow you knew the unknowable. That’s much more crazy than saying, “It’s unknowable, but I choose to believe it might be true.”

Take it up with the professor:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking#Religion

[!@#$%!]

puta madre what did this thread turn into now

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

puta madre what did this thread turn into now

Lotta side topics have been discussed here, Symbols! But nevermind; we can now focus on how the ORANGE FUCK is about to go into a degenerate deregulation spree. If you want to.

[ilduclo]

Tom Price out, what an asshole.

Zinke still in, what an asshole

http://www.latimes.com/politics/wash...htmlstory.html

[!@#$%!]

michael moore was on democracy now today talking about how "we have to get rid of trump" this year, and swearing that he's gonna get us into a war, and to be ready

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

michael moore was on democracy now today talking about how "we have to get rid of trump" this year, and swearing that he's gonna get us into a war, and to be ready

I love Michael, but see, the thing is we'd have to get rid of this whole administration. As you have pointed out before, Mike Pence could be even worse — we wouldn't have to endure a psychotic circus every day, but by now we'd have Ryancare as the law of the land because Pence would actually work with those fuckers in Congress instead of engaging in a pissing contest with them every other day. So I guess I'm saying... Let Trump Be Trump?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

I love Michael, but see, the thing is we'd have to get rid of this whole administration. As you have pointed out before, Mike Pence could be even worse — we wouldn't have to endure a psychotic circus every day, but by now we'd have Ryancare as the law of the land because Pence would actually work with those fuckers in Congress instead of engaging in a pissing contest with them every other day. So I guess I'm saying... Let Trump Be Trump?

yeah... his random incompetence is our ally

me-- im holding my breath till the midterms... and turning the color of this message board

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by ilduclo

Tom Price out, what an asshole.

JET! Woo-ooh ooh-ooh ooh-ooh-ooh ooh-ooh! And he was the HEALTH secretary — ostensibly, the guy who had to lead the repeal of the ACA from the executive branch! So all this time he should've been a major player! Instead, he spent a million public dollars assclowning his way around the globe! You can't make this up!

By the way, everybody please knock it off with the bullcrap that Republicans have supposedly been talking about "repealing and replacing Obamacare" for seven years. Fake news! "Replacing" was never in their discourse until recently. Their whole slogan was just to repeal it, roll it back, because the United States, the greatest country in the world, already had the greatest healthcare system in the world, you follow. (Fucking Rudolph Giuliani and Mitt Romney actually said that, verbatim). The "replacing" part had to be added because some former teabaggers went, "UH, wait a minute, this Nazi/Joker/Obama-care stuff isn't that bad — I think my HMO may have been sodomizing me after all...".

[Severian]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

"You know, I'd get it if people were just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they WANT the holes. They wanna LIVE in the holes. And they go NUTS when someone else pours dirt in their holes. CLIMB OUT OF YOUR HOLES, PEOPLE!"

Take it up with the professor:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking#Religion

Thanks for the thoughtful reply to the things I said.

Gotta be honest, I’m a little peeved about this now. I’m obviously not making a case for religion. I’m saying belief in god in and of itself is harmless, and anyone who claims to definitively know that God doesn’t exist is too dumb to warrant my time or energy.

You call it “God,” I call it “Superman” or “Doctor Who,” or the feeling you get when you hear “Inagine” or make fall in love, or hope.

Fuck you if you think there’s anything wrong with that. I’m about as science-minded as they come, but I choose to believe that a fantasy that can’t be disproven at this point in our evolution might be true. When the concept of God becomes falsifiable, I’ll stop believing and probably be a little sadder for it.

If you really think that’s more damaging than conning people into believing tax cuts for the wealthy will save them, then I’d say you’re making some weird comparisons, and not doing anything to benefit your own argument.

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by Severian

Thanks for the thoughtful reply to the things I said.

You're right, I could and probably should have tried to be articulate and explain my position at length, but —just like you're feeling now— I couldn't muster the energy to do so once again (I've talked about this here in the past). Instead, I decided to have a little fun with it. (As Thomas Haden Church tells Paul Giamatti in Sideways, "Remember FUN?"). And I had to seize the chance to use that Greg House gif! Kanye shades with "Fight The Power" coming from the boombox don't really mix though, but hey, the gif is silent.

I gotta say, "I choose to believe in a fantasy" is one of the biggest oxymorons I've read in my LIFE. But lookit, man, nevermind, really. You remembered the "Heroes" <-> The Best Day connecsh and that's all that matters to me now. That and Molly Parker. Good GOD what a woman...

[Severian]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

You're right, I could and probably should have tried to be articulate and explain my position at length, but —just like you're feeling now— I couldn't muster the energy to do so once again (I've talked about this here in the past). Instead, I decided to have a little fun with it. (As Thomas Haden Church tells Paul Giamatti in Sideways, "Remember FUN?"). And I had to seize the chance to use that Greg House gif! Kanye shades with "Fight The Power" coming from the boombox don't really mix though, but hey, the gif is silent.

I gotta say, "I choose to believe in a fantasy" is one of the biggest oxymorons I've read in my LIFE. But lookit, man, nevermind, really. You remembered the "Heroes" <-> The Best Day connecsh and that's all that matters to me now. That and Molly Parker. Good GOD what a woman...

It’s not really an oxymoron. It’s just anachronistic. And I get that. But I think the people/ideologies you (and I) have issues with are the folks who cannot, or are unwilling to, understand and accept that God is just a fucking idea. Claiming there is, factually, a God, is ridiculous and absurd, and throwing your public or political decisions behind that idea is DANGEROUS. But I believe Thomas Kuhn would say that definitively claiming that there is no God is just as absurd and pointless, and even potentially dangerous.

I have huge, lifelong issues and gripes with every religion under the sun, and I subscribe to exactly none of them, holding them all in equally negative regard including atheism (which is essentially a religion).
I think we probably agree on just about everything of substance that there is to agree on here. But my choice to stubbornly believe in goodness and benevolence is not harmful in any way, shape or form to anyone anywhere. Besides, my “God” is not the Christian God, and it’s not Yahweh and there are no prophets. When I say I believe in god, I mean I have a thing in my mind that is the essence of goodness, and I choose to root for this thing in the privacy of my own mind.
Categorically I am an agnostic.
I think being an agnostic is the only sane option. If you’re anything else, you’re deluded/ willfully ignorant/ arrogant in the extreme.

So I don’t think your beef is with people like me. I think your beef is with organized religion, zealots, and people who DON’T understand that they’re making a choice to believe in what is almost certainly a fantasy.

I have beef with all the same things, people, ideas and institutions. And since I get this, and understand that we are in fundamental agreement (correct me if I’m wrong and I don’t get it), then I guess I could go easier and avoid getting peeved. But I’d like to think there are more people out there like me, who identify as theists because they’re not atheists, and because they have hope in something good that has nothing to do with common ideas of religion or spirituality.

[h8kurdt]

Think I heard Rob's screaming from over here after Trump's new comments about Puerto Rico. How can anyone be so cold-hearted? It actually baffles me.

[ilduclo]

Can we set up a religion thread and take this there, please?

[Severian]

Originally Posted by ilduclo

Can we set up a religion thread and take this there, please?

Sorry.

[ilduclo]

So, the Republican idiocy machine attacks Iraq, resulting in essentially partition into Shiite, Sunni & Kurd population centers, and ethnic cleansing. Now, Tillerson says the Kurd independence vote is "illegitimate". Damn, I'll be glad to tell him just what is really illegitimate.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Think I heard Rob's screaming from over here after Trump's new comments about Puerto Rico. How can anyone be so cold-hearted? It actually baffles me.

the narcissist only has heart for himself-- if at all

pure mental illness