[Severian]

Originally Posted by guest

does that make it any more excusable to repeatedly say faggot or refer to asians as bottom feeders? because if so then by that logic it’s fine for a white person to use the n word.

people need to stop holding rap to a lower moral standard than other music, it’s reductive and condescending

No, but I think context is somewhat important, especially when discussing art.

Honestly I’m not excusing it, but I also don’t think that Lee Daniels Freestyle, which comes with a literal note saying, “I wrote this because I’m pissed about cultural stereotyping, and I want to show you how it feels when that happens,” is evidence of blanket homophobia.

Again, I do think that’s a shallow read.


Maybe people should stop pretending that rap is Un-Art and that complex messaging isn’t possible in the genre.

Ever seen, like, Kids? Or more recently mid90s? Disparaging, homophobic language abounds, but nobody’s accusing Jonah Hill of homophobia. And his movie didn’t even come with an explanation.

Anyway, whatever.


New JPEGMafia album is crazy, and honestly barely qualifies as rap music.

[d.sound]

I love and despise Dr Dre's The Chronic. It's great music... The bass line to "the night the ____ took over" is pure genius. But god damn that misogyny. It's repulsive.

[guest]

it is definitely a selective read on my part but I can’t get over the fact that making a track like that is espousing some degree of hatred, irrespective of intent. and especially when the audience for this stuff like it or not isn’t exclusively able to exercise that critical distance (considering this is very much in the lineage of ‘masc angst’ music).

no one is saying that rap isn’t art here, quite the contrary. I think art is held to certain moral standards and yeah it may be transgressive but I don’t think that excuses using a lexicon that is obscenely hurtful to certain groups. comparing it to film is something else entirely because those are character studies; jpegmafia is coming at it from a singular cis male perspective and regardless of his unarguable lack of privilege in other facets of his life for him to co-opt the difficulties of others is just a bit much.

it’s ovviously separate from Dre and his domestic violence anthems or kanye west just being a general misogynistic pig, but if we’re going to apply a critical lens to all music then rap should be subjected to the same scrutiny.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by guest

it is definitely a selective read on my part but I can’t get over the fact that making a track like that is espousing some degree of hatred, irrespective of intent. and especially when the audience for this stuff like it or not isn’t exclusively able to exercise that critical distance (considering this is very much in the lineage of ‘masc angst’ music).

no one is saying that rap isn’t art here, quite the contrary. I think art is held to certain moral standards and yeah it may be transgressive but I don’t think that excuses using a lexicon that is obscenely hurtful to certain groups. comparing it to film is something else entirely because those are character studies; jpegmafia is coming at it from a singular cis male perspective and regardless of his unarguable lack of privilege in other facets of his life for him to co-opt the difficulties of others is just a bit much.

it’s ovviously separate from Dre and his domestic violence anthems or kanye west just being a general misogynistic pig, but if we’re going to apply a critical lens to all music then rap should be subjected to the same scrutiny.

OK, that’s fair.

I honestly am turned off by the — what’s it called? “Incel”? — vibe and general tendency to troll like Pepe the fucking Frog in JPEG’s music. How great would it be if the endless culture-trolling and edgelord bullshit was just toned down a wee bit and the focus could be entirely on the music.
I have similar issues with Tyler the Creator and Kanye. Trolls, all of them. To their detriment.

But I guess I look past it if the music is engaging, and “Peggy” makes some pretty engaging music, so..

But yes, rap should be subject to the same scrutiny. And to be honest, looking at those lyrics again made me feel a little bleh.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by d.sound

I love and despise Dr Dre's The Chronic. It's great music... The bass line to "the night the ____ took over" is pure genius. But god damn that misogyny. It's repulsive.

I cannot listen to Dre.

I can’t listen to Eminem. Don’t care if he’s reformed. I’m a little shocked at my high-school self for listening to him at all, and letting shit slide.

Dr. Dre’s not just a misogynist either. Busted up his ex’s face until it needed to be fitted back into place. Fucking disgusting.

[guest]

to be honest when I first heard jpegmafia I did think there was something interesting going on musically but you’re right, there’s something about that troll aesthetic that seems really popular at the moment that’s super off-putting. and for some reason I can’t look past that a good 90% of the time now, and I wouldn’t even attribute it solely to hip hop, the vast majority of noise repulses me at this point for being so far up its own arse too and falling into that trap of being perhaps performatively vitriolic? but as is well established here I’m a cynical cunt so grain of salt obviously

[Kuhb]

Originally Posted by guest

to be honest when I first heard jpegmafia I did think there was something interesting going on musically but you’re right, there’s something about that troll aesthetic that seems really popular at the moment that’s super off-putting. and for some reason I can’t look past that a good 90% of the time now, and I wouldn’t even attribute it solely to hip hop, the vast majority of noise repulses me at this point for being so far up its own arse too and falling into that trap of being perhaps performatively vitriolic? but as is well established here I’m a cynical cunt so grain of salt obviously

A great deal of today's culture is either performatively woke or performatively vitriolic. It's quite hard to escape

[guest]

totally, I think it’s just a very cynical era we’re living in and it’s super pervasive, honestly I’m not sure that there’s all that many ways to get away from it

[_tunic_]

maybe you're just getting old, and can't keep up with the hipsters of today anymore

A great deal of today's culture is either performatively woke or performatively vitriolic. It's quite hard to escape

that's more or less what people said about Elvis Presley in the fifties and the Beatles and Stones in the early sixties, or punk in the seventies.


Look at this:
Elvis P. in 1957
Cardi B. in 2019


(this is not a personal attack to anyone of you, just saying, it's more or less my personal viewpoint on rap/hiphop/any other music of today that I don't like)

[Kuhb]

Originally Posted by _tunic_

maybe you're just getting old, and can't keep up with the hipsters of today anymore
that's more or less what people said about Elvis Presley in the fifties and the Beatles and Stones in the early sixties, or punk in the seventies.


Look at this:
Elvis P. in 1957
Cardi B. in 2019


(this is not a personal attack to anyone of you, just saying, it's more or less my personal viewpoint on rap/hiphop/any other music of today that I don't like)

That isn't what people said

[Severian]

Originally Posted by guest

totally, I think it’s just a very cynical era we’re living in and it’s super pervasive, honestly I’m not sure that there’s all that many ways to get away from it

Yeah, I feel this.
And it’s not just hip-hop. There’s culture trolling in whatever passes for passable rock music in the mainstream, too (The 1975 for some reason?) and it’s all a bit much.
I mean, I’m a pretty cynical motherfucker too, and all my musical favorites have some degree of iconoclasm permanently lodged in their identities (Lou Reed to RDJ to SY to whoever), but being provocative and iconoclastic seems to, in the late 2010s, mean essentially being an edgelord button-pusher with no portion of authenticity to their “act.”

Like JPEG or Tyler or Lana Del Rey or whatever. So much of it is just “let me see how much I can fuck with people and how many horrible things I can get away with saying before people call me out”
And if you call them out, watch out, because “kids today” will eat your fucking face. Because it is now socially unacceptable in a lot of circles to take anything seriously.

I mean, it’s hard for an older fuck like me to reconcile my dislike of this stuff with my appreciation and respect for punk and the punk spirit. But this is different terrain, really.

[Kuhb]

Originally Posted by Severian

”
. Because it is now socially unacceptable in a lot of circles to take anything seriously.
.

Yep.

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by d.sound

Winky face means you are aware I'm referring to the Charli XCX song?

I wasn't aware at all! I've never heard this Charli person, ever. I thought you meant I was fixating on a reissue instead of a new album.

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by Severian

Definitely fuck yeah to 1999 reissue, but I will really lose my shit when Sign O gets such a treatment. Salivating at the thought

Originally Posted by _tunic_

No it's Prince 1999 album reissue. I wouldn't mind hearing the bonuses and demos etc of this era, but I am with Sev here, would be more looking forward to a Sign O The Times reissue

As I mentioned here once, a truly comprehensive Sign O The Times reissue would be such a sprawling thing you'd need to sell a fucking kidney to afford it. The original double album. The singles. The 12" mixes. The outtakes. The demos. The crazy experiments "unvaulted" (oh, you know they're there - this is Prince we're talking about). The Sign O The Times concert film, which has never seen the light of the laser in the U.S. More live stuff. And THEN, be careful what you ask for, because the set would be fundamentally incomplete without the THREE finished but shelved albums that spawned SOTT: Dream Factory, Camille and Crystal Ball, which amount to twelve (!) sides of vinyl right there. So cancel your silly iPhone orders and start saving NOW.

[d.sound]

I don't know if JPEGMAFIA is intolerant or whatever because like 20 seconds in it just sounded like boring hip hop. I didn't get what was supposed to be special about it.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by d.sound

I don't know if JPEGMAFIA is intolerant or whatever because like 20 seconds in it just sounded like boring hip hop. I didn't get what was supposed to be special about it.

Did you listen last that 20 second mark?

Because honestly, whatever the guy is, boring hip-hop is not what he’s doing. He’s on some crazy sound collage shit, and the beat and style changes are almost non-stop.

Sure you’re listening to the right album?

[The Soup Nazi]

 

TRAVELIN' THRU, 1967-1969: THE BOOTLEG SERIES VOL. 15
Available November 1

1967 saw a profound transformation in Bob Dylan's musical evolution. Withdrawing from public view following his July 1966 motorcyle accident, he re-emerged in 1967 with John Wesley Harding, recorded in Nashville with a core trio featuring bassist Charlie McCoy and drummer Kenneth Buttrey, the resulting album had a sublime, minimal sound. Follow-up Nashville Skyline, also recorded in Nashville, featured the stirring "Girl From The North Country," a duet with Johnny Cash. The album would reach number 1 in the U.S. and the U.K.

Now, Travelin' Thru, 1967-1969: The Bootleg Series Vol. 15 revisits Dylan's pivotal journey to Nashville. This 3CD or 3LP set features outtakes from both albums, including the first release of Dylan and Cash's joint studio sessions. The package also features Dylan and Cash's performance on The Johnny Cash Show, two Nashville outtakes from the Self Portrait sessions and tracks recorded in 1970 with Grammy Award-winning bluegrass banjo legend Earl Scruggs for a PBS television special.

https://bobdylan.lnk.to/travelinthruAN!0919

All I can say is I've had the Dylan/Cash sessions boot for... let's just say AGES now, and it's one of my very favorite unofficial numbers. (How could it not be; it's fuckin' awesome. Their take on "Big River" alone will floor you.) About time it got the treatment it deserves.

[d.sound]

Originally Posted by Severian

Did you listen last that 20 second mark?

Because honestly, whatever the guy is, boring hip-hop is not what he’s doing. He’s on some crazy sound collage shit, and the beat and style changes are almost non-stop.

Sure you’re listening to the right album?

Heroes cornballs, first track is like jesus forgive me I'm a thot?

I skipped around through several tracks. I just heard 90s style hip hop. I didn't hear any sound collages.

[The Soup Nazi]

Out now (virtual-only unless you find one of the 75 copies which sold out in nanoseconds): No Age - Score For The Day Before.

 

"Score For The Day Before" performed live at The McEvoy Foundation for the Arts, San Francisco, CA, on 9/7/2019, to accompany the film Score For The Day Before by Randy Randall and Dean Spunt. Recorded directly to a Tascam 424 Portastudio 4 track. A side is the score. B side is the score in reverse. Dubbed and die cut the same day by No Age and friends. Edition of 75. Design by Brian Roettinger.

https://noage.bandcamp.com/album/sco...the-day-before

As you can see on that link, the cassette's artwork is considerably cooler than the picture above... Anyway, I also noticed there are at least two more No Age tapes that I hadn't paid attention to, both released last year:

Aquarium Behavior:

 

Spree Snare Cuts - Live in Germany 2018:

 

[The Soup Nazi]

Out now: Patty Waters - Live

 

Patty Waters is a visionary avant-garde vocalist and composer, best known for her groundbreaking 1960s recordings for the legendary free jazz label ESP-Disk. Captivated by the music of Billie Holiday, she sang with Bill Evans, Charlie Mingus, Chick Corea, and Herbie Hancock before coming to the attention of Albert Ayler, who introduced her to ESP-Disk's Bernard Stollman. The rest is history. Recorded with pianist Burton Greene, Waters' haunting 1966 debut Sings juxtaposes a side of hushed self-composed jazz ballad miniatures with an iconoclastic take on the standard "Black Is the Color of My True Love's Hair." Sharing Ayler's affinity for the deconstruction of folk idioms, Waters dismantles the tune through a series of anguished wails, moans, whispers, and screams that cemented her reputation as a vocal innovator, predating the extended techniques of Yoko Ono, Joan La Barbara, and Linda Sharrock, and cited as a direct influence to Diamanda Galás and Patti Smith's own freeform vocal excursions. The mythic side-long exposition stands as one of the 20th century's most harrowing expressions of madness and grief, its incantatory mutilation of the word "black" into a full-spectrum monochrome resounding with a particular potency at a time when battles for civil rights were erupting across the country.

After recording a second ESP-Disk album Waters disappeared from the music scene, moving from New York to California to raise her son. It wasn't until 1996 that she returned with a new recording of jazz standards associated with Billie Holiday and began performing sporadically. Her Blank Forms concert—with original pianist Burton Greene as well as bassist Mario Pavone and percussionist Barry Altschul, both veterans of Paul Bley's ensembles—was Waters' first New York appearance since 2003. Dedicated to Cecil Taylor, who had passed away moments before she took the stage, Patty Waters Live preserves the mournful tension that was in the air that night. Her first new release on vinyl since 1966's College Tour, the record divides the session in the spirit of her debut. Side A features a set of desolate ballads, including Waters' own classic "Moon, Don't Come Up Tonight," while the B-side puts into stark relief the fact that the fight for civil rights that Waters invoked over 50 years ago is far from over. Beginning with her rendition of "Strange Fruit," a 1937 song written in protest of black lynching and American racism, the suite's form-bending contortions also features the second-ever recording of Waters' original, exceptional lyrical take on Ornette Coleman's "Lonely Woman." Equally adept at channeling the heartbroken intimacy of Lady Day and the catharsis of The New Thing, on April 5th, 2018 Waters proved that she has lost none of her fire, remaining one of the greatest living jazz singers.

https://blankformseditions.bandcamp.com/album/live

Preview "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry", "Lonely Woman" and "Wild Is The Wind" on The Wire's website.