[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Which is more offensive, tons of pictures of naked women or tons of parody threads?

parody threads, no question

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by ni'k

right. its not directed at anyone in particualar, just the composite of behaviour i read here. i guess i can see that because you have a wife you feel some need to use the board to make an ass of yourself.

the point might not to be to talk so you can enjoy countering the counter arguments, but to listen and think about what someone else has said?

because nobody in my mind has properly listened to what the women have been saying here, because if they would have they would address the issue of the images. they would have agreed to only keep them to the one thread, because as i said in my post you are acting like you are too stuck up to read but still comment upon, it's getting nauseating.

and i think that that shows a lack of respect for women here, because you all went on and on, as if to say "we are gonna just keep posting whatever the hell we want and you can listen to us justify it." you started arguments about the definition of objectification, but it all seemed to be solely for the purpose of proving you didn't have to change anything about the way you thought or behaved. it seemed only to occur to you to prove yourselves, not consider changing anything. this to me is the ultimate example of male fuckheadedness in a conversation and i am totally guilty of it all the time.

so my suggestion is to so show some respect for women (and the rest of us) in what you DO here and keep the grossness to one thread? fair enough? you could also try to tone down the mysogyny in the way you all talk about women sometimes? sound reasonable?

I read everything everyone writes AND I did tell knox that I would keep the images to the appropriate threads (damn girl pull Ovah and post pics of hot girls)
everything you wrote is valid and true but I do not see it necessarily applying to the people on this forum. this forum is words, text mostly, and intent/subtext/sarcasm/irony etc are very hard to "read" from white letters on a blue background. To extrapolate too much based on certain offensive comments/posts/images is not good either.
the only mysogyny I see seems to be purely farcical.

[ni'k]

i didn't see that you told knox that. it needs to be everyone tho, not just you. you are the only one so far who has eventually shown any willingness to help us out on this which is appreciated.

i disagree with a few of the things you said. i don't think it's about extrapolating anything, because that would suggest it's our fault for extrapolating it the wrong way. it's clearly there. some people don't find it to be funny, no matter how ironic or farcical the poster covers themselves by claiming to be. you can be mysogynistic ironically, because what? you're aware that its offensive and you shouldn't but you still do anyway? and it's not a matter of just telling someone to lighten up.

i don't buy the farce argument either, it doesn't apply most of the time. that's just saying "oh i said it but i don't mean it." then just don't say it. everyone knows what kind of game you're playing with that. you're saying "oh i know this is supposed to offend you but you can't get annoyed because i don't mean it, so i'm going to say it anyway in a non serious context so you have to let me get away with it and not get mad, cos i'm trying to irritate you". that's just boring.

it's really not an issue of someone extrapolating "oh he hates women" based on the pictures that are posted. the point is we do not want to see those pictures ourselves, if they were kept in just the one thread we wouldn't have to look and it would be fine. in the same way that you guys would (presumably) get nauseated if someone started posting hardcore gay porn all over the place, or post it now just to prove me wrong. so all that has been asked is that all those gross/porn pictures be kept in the one thread, which i think is pretty reasonable. but the moment you try to be genuine here it's mandatory that someone kicks in with irreverance and does the opposite of what you've said, even if you already know they will. presumably for the sake of how predictable that is, and to prove how individual they are. which is even more boring.

so i think i can assume to speak on behalf for at least 4 other people who have already stated this and probably a lot more who haven't by saying:
it would be really nice and prove that you guys are willing to be courteous to the rest of us if you could just keep all the gross/porn in the one thread. as it's really nauseating for some of us to have to see it everywhere.

[Rob Instigator]

It is true. It is not fair to people checking this forum out at libraries, mom's house, friend's computers, work, school, etc.

[knox]

I'm upset mr. #6%4*6 just completely ignored my post.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

japanese guys get boners from watching videos of women kicking dudes in their pixeled out balls. Or watching videos of women putting cockroaches in a blender, drinking them, the puking them over a guy's nob then sucking him off.

ha ha ha ha-- i/ve never seen that sort of stuff, but seems totally plausible.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Glice

Oh, I wasn't going to say anything, but I just wanted to say that there's a lot of conflating of biological facts with more complex social quandaries going on. Why not just say "Humans are biologically inclined towards sex, therefore it's ok if I rape this 12-year-old. Come on, she wants it"?

who the fuck would say something like that? keeping it simple?

[ni'k]

by the way rob, i mixed you up with symbol man, i was referring to him not reading one of my posts a few pages ago, but i mixed you up and thought you were him replying. so i didn't mean that when i said you were ignoring anything.

[Rob Instigator]

How come when I click on yr blog link it sez I gotta get an invite?

send one sucka! robinstigator@gmail.com
or fuppets@gmail.com

[ni'k]

i've taken the blog down and may redo it at some point.

[Rob Instigator]

ahhhh.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

who the fuck would say something like that? keeping it simple?

No-one reasonable would say it, and no-one who wanted to be taken seriously would. You could argue the point for it with the same 'logic' applied by quite a few on this thread (though not necessarily you, you're a bit sharper than that).

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by knox

I'm upset mr. #6%4*6 just completely ignored my post.

i didnt, i answered in a hurry and without quoting you because 1) i was tired from answering too many posts and 2) the phone rang, and it was important

however, since some kind of chainsaw outside the window woke me up early, i'll take this time to answer you in extra detail, quotes & all

Originally Posted by knox

You guys are twisting my whole point. I never said anything about pornography and those images are not pornography (not even legally speaking).

who is "you guys" and what is your point and if pornography is not the problem then what is it? please clarify.

Originally Posted by knox

You said I am not an object because I didn't present myself to you as such. But is it ok if I am to anyone else who hasn't talked to me?

you're not an object, you're words on a screen :P

sorry, smartass answer, albeit true on a level; but i feel you're either trying to put words in my mouth or looking for badness under the carpet. however, if it's a genuine question i already gave you a genuine answer: no, people are people, but objects (pictures) are objects. pictures are not people. if i paint a moustache on a picture of george bush and stab his eyes, he does not magically grow a moustache and lose his eyesight.

Originally Posted by knox

Just because we're good people and we treat the people we know nicely, does it mean that we do not spread any nasty moral cultural viruses that we should probably analyse better? By excusing ourselves because we're "good people", isn't that how we spread discrimination, classism, racism, sexism, xenophobia and all horrors?

what is the "nasty cultural virus" that we're spreading here in spite of being good people? [edit: ok, i see below now, no worries]

Originally Posted by knox

You never mentioned anything about choice. You said something about those women having a choice, but not the women who are surrounded by these images everywhere.

i said this 2 pages back:

yeah i don't find beating up women funny at all and that gif sucks.

however, i do like the freewheeling nature of this place. and if that means i have to avert my eyes when i see some unpleasant shit (there is plenty), i'll avert my eyes and move on to what interests me. it's a conscious choice.

i could go frequent censored and managed boards but those usually suck. the price of freedom is having to put up with shit we dislike in others-- like the presence of keep it simpleton, for example-- that shouldn't keep us from expressing our opinion on it though, so calling someone on their unpleasant shit is totally fair game, and so on & so forth.

Originally Posted by knox

It seems that it makes Nik's point more obvious, that no one is interested in what we're saying (a few people have respectfully requested that the boy's club should be kept in one thread) but no one did anything other than justify why they don't give a shit about how others feel.

i have already answered/addressed that. i said that there is plenty here that displeases or revolts me, personally, but i either 1) avoid it and move on, or 2)if it pisses me off enough give the culprits shit for it. and i've encouraged you to give people shit for what you find offending.

i am angry that you ignored my response. no, not really, but come on, i already answered that, if you don't like my reply it's one thing but don't say ive ignored you.

Originally Posted by knox

This spreading social stereotypes, leaving gay men and women to get the worst end of the shit and straight boy to live in this constant anxiety of what is it that a man is supposed to be.

[edit: ok, this is the nasty cultural virus you're talking about, i assume]

yes i agree with you that those stereotypes and expectations are annoying and deleterious, but if you know who you are you don't have to be a pushover and let them affect you, and if you think you need to do battle against them-- battle!

Originally Posted by knox

All this bullshit discussion is something I would expect from any bullshit workspace filled with mediocre people. I guess I'm too naive to think Sonic Youth fans would be different.

i used to take the internet seriously too, particularly this board, but then i learned that you cannot control the internet and it's always going to veer towards the lowest common denominator [edit: which is why i warned you about the "entities"-- i know this place].

atari used to pick fights with people he didn't find worthy of his intellect and artistic vision, eventually he picked fights with everyone here. me, i realized this is never going to be mount parnassus and that there will always be a measure of shit going on, so i lowered my expectations and learned to love the bomb. sorry, obscure dr. strangelove joke. i mean i learned to love the chaos. trying to turn this place, particularly the "lower board" (aka non-sonics aka the sewer) into some sort of intellectual heaven is a futile enterprise. however, you're free to try.

Originally Posted by knox

I don't know why. I had this boyfriend once who was a Sonic Youth fan. I once told him as a teenager I would listen to Kim Gordon's songs and go like yeah yeah I relate to this message and then he said I listened to her songs too, just so I could jerk off to her voice.

I should have known back then.

everybody has something different in their spank bank. you don't have one? or are you too uncomfortable to say? are you against masturbation, or were you just jealous?

[space]

unf

 

[Rob Instigator]

fave movie ever

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

This thread sucks. Let's go jerk off.

[space]

^^^ you mean you haven't already?

tsk tsk

[knox]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i didnt, i answered in a hurry and without quoting you because 1) i was tired from answering too many posts and 2) the phone rang, and it was important

however, since some kind of chainsaw outside the window woke me up early, i'll take this time to answer you in extra detail, quotes & all



who is "you guys" and what is your point and if pornography is not the problem then what is it? please clarify.



you're not an object, you're words on a screen :P

sorry, smartass answer, albeit true on a level; but i feel you're either trying to put words in my mouth or looking for badness under the carpet. however, if it's a genuine question i already gave you a genuine answer: no, people are people, but objects (pictures) are objects. pictures are not people. if i paint a moustache on a picture of george bush and stab his eyes, he does not magically grow a moustache and lose his eyesight.



what is the "nasty cultural virus" that we're spreading here in spite of being good people? [edit: ok, i see below now, no worries]



i said this 2 pages back:

yeah i don't find beating up women funny at all and that gif sucks.

however, i do like the freewheeling nature of this place. and if that means i have to avert my eyes when i see some unpleasant shit (there is plenty), i'll avert my eyes and move on to what interests me. it's a conscious choice.

i could go frequent censored and managed boards but those usually suck. the price of freedom is having to put up with shit we dislike in others-- like the presence of keep it simpleton, for example-- that shouldn't keep us from expressing our opinion on it though, so calling someone on their unpleasant shit is totally fair game, and so on & so forth.



i have already answered/addressed that. i said that there is plenty here that displeases or revolts me, personally, but i either 1) avoid it and move on, or 2)if it pisses me off enough give the culprits shit for it. and i've encouraged you to give people shit for what you find offending.

i am angry that you ignored my response. no, not really, but come on, i already answered that, if you don't like my reply it's one thing but don't say ive ignored you.



[edit: ok, this is the nasty cultural virus you're talking about, i assume]

yes i agree with you that those stereotypes and expectations are annoying and deleterious, but if you know who you are you don't have to be a pushover and let them affect you, and if you think you need to do battle against them-- battle!



i used to take the internet seriously too, particularly this board, but then i learned that you cannot control the internet and it's always going to veer towards the lowest common denominator [edit: which is why i warned you about the "entities"-- i know this place].

atari used to pick fights with people he didn't find worthy of his intellect and artistic vision, eventually he picked fights with everyone here. me, i realized this is never going to be mount parnassus and that there will always be a measure of shit going on, so i lowered my expectations and learned to love the bomb. sorry, obscure dr. strangelove joke. i mean i learned to love the chaos. trying to turn this place, particularly the "lower board" (aka non-sonics aka the sewer) into some sort of intellectual heaven is a futile enterprise. however, you're free to try.



everybody has something different in their spank bank. you don't have one? or are you too uncomfortable to say? are you against masturbation, or were you just jealous?

You do know you are twisting my whole point. You know it. And I'll just imagine it is because you're too uncomfortable with the whole debate. The last paragraph is so far from anything I've said (and I know you know it) that I refuse to even comment. It's a cheap attack/speculation (that you'll claim to be a joke) that I better just ignore it.

But I still understand it, in a way. If we are to fully understand every implication of our actions we might just crumble. If you were to understand the overall consequence of the actions you engage in (because everyone does it) you wouldn't handle it. So we try and protect ourselves by not SEEING it.

Kim gordon's songs are not usually my favorite. On the other hand, I've always liked the lyrics and how it'll mention all these questions about the objetification of women, gender roles and whatnot in a way that's intelligent and far from cliche. It is always amazing to me how people can filter the messages they don't wanna hear (like you've been doing to my posts), and just simply focus on the part they can deal with. I'm surprised to find out how that can go unheard tho.

You also know I wasn't talking about pornography (as much as I know males are taught to simplify everything). I was inviting you to think about how we are surrounded by images of objectification of women everywhere, without a choice. To say a photo is not a person is just simplifying too much in order to justify everything. One photo is the representation of a person, the representation of a woman, and a thousand photos everywhere are the representation of how society views women in general. Otherwise such images would be rare, instead of the norm.

There's nothing I can say that'll get you to fully understand what's like to grow up surrounded by these ideas/comments/images/behaviour with the underlying nightmare that that's all they want you to be, you'll always be judged/measured/treated according to them (or whatever men are taught by them that women are like). You'll either fall in the category or not. And if you don't, there'l be consequences to pay. It doesn't matter what you do or who you are, this will be assessed first. This is what the world thinks it's your self worth. The rest is an accessory. You'll become a prisioner of your own body and you can't eat, speak or age without fear. But you will argue is NOT like that. Because you know what's like to be a woman, right? Everyone does. They do because they tell us what's it like to be us.

You'll say you're not responsible for that, but you are. We all are.

If people are free to post what they want, we're also free to voice our opinions. I never said I am not capable of ignoring whatever I don't like, I just said I was dissapointed to see this forum's main activity be just as banal as celebrity gossip website.

And then other people respectfully requested the images to be kept in certain threads. It bothers them and they're just as entitled to use this forum as anyone else. Women are being driven away and don't wanna post anymore (I've been told by a few).

Of course you don't have to accept these requests. But the lack of willingness to do so or even care about what these people feel shows something more disturbing than any image anyone could post could ever be.

[!@#$%!]

i can't give you a long answer right now (you know it takes time) but i dont know where you get the notion that i don't care about your requests, but i think that dialogue requires for people to attempt to understand each other and where the other is coming from, and i fell like you're just projecting a lot onto my answer, things i have never said/ supported/ etc., like "i'm uncomfortable with the whole debate". i've answered your previous post point by point and i'm not the one who said "this thread sucks, let's go jerk off". it's fucking annoying to be mischaracterized like that. here i am trying to understand and be understood and i get this "you don't wanna talk about this" bullshit thrown in my face. that's a cheap tactic and you know better.

anyway, i get that you want a politically correct board/ society/ world, i get that some of these things hurt your feelings, and i get that you want to restrain the trash to a single thread, and i get lots more that i don't have time to clarify right now (but i will later). however, please, if you want do have a good discussion don't start by with assuming or projecting ill will ontp your discussion partner, or you'll end up arguing with the ghosts in your head instead of the person in front of you.

anyway i need to go have breakfast, make some phone calls, clean my cat's crap, and set up my work table, among other things, but i'll come back to answer the prosecutor's charges at a later time. and i don't call them prosecutor's charges because "i don't wanna hear"-- i call them that because you're unfairly depicting my position on this matter to a degree that it appears purposeful. but yeah, ok, i'll give you the benefit of the doubt & presume good will on your part before i write my own answers.

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

I hate the smell of bra burnings in the morning.