[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I know you are a Kanye superfanatico BUT what we are talking about is not quantifiable in any way.

Hang on. I don't want to start a thing, but didn't you and I actually get into a rather lengthy debate about whether or not musical influence or innovation or some such thing could be quantified? Didn't you argue that it could indeed be done?

I don't remember the specifics of the conversation, and looking back I actually think that within a certain sample size, trends could be identified and matched up with first recorded instances of certain musical styles in a way that might hold up to some statistic scrutiny it done properly and over a long period of time. But I'm just seeking clarification here.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

Hang on. I don't want to start a thing, but didn't you and I actually get into a rather lengthy debate about whether or not musical influence or innovation or some such thing could be quantified? Didn't you argue that it could indeed be done?

I don't remember the specifics of the conversation, and looking back I actually think that within a certain sample size, trends could be identified and matched up with first recorded instances of certain musical styles in a way that might hold up to some statistic scrutiny it done properly and over a long period of time. But I'm just seeking clarification here.

That conversation was about guitar music, where we can identify chord structure, scales, and patterns. for hip hop its a bit different. sure we can identify some of the musical structures of it but in hip hop, at least myself, i don't hear as obvious of patterns of structural influence.

in other words i haven't heard music on the radio use the same kinds of drum sequences, bass lines, or melody patterns from Kanye music.

most of the rap i hear today still sounds more like Dirty South and trap influenced stuff.

i do give credit to Kanye, his music does sound original compared to all the radio rap, but i haven't heard radio rap that to me sounds like kanye.

think how bush sounded like Nirvana

[noisereductions]

after Kanye made the album 808s And Heartbreak, out came Drake, The Weeknd, and a lot of other dudes on the radio that sound a lot like the album 808s And Heartbreak.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

after Kanye made the album 808s And Heartbreak, out came Drake, The Weeknd, and a lot of other dudes on the radio that sound a lot like the album 808s And Heartbreak.

i don't disagree with that hence why i had originally said

Sure five or six years, ten years ago even I would have totally agreed with you

however i will add the caveat that this might be a chicken and egg question, how much of this is influenced by Kanye vs how much is Kanye influenced by music that uses these elements because Kanye didn't invent originate the 808/trap sound, it goes back to 1985

[noisereductions]

Drake, Weeknd, etc are still on the radio today.

808s And Heartbreak sounds nothing like "808/trap" music.

[louder]

Even some cuts on Frank Ocean's "Nostalgia, Ultra" mixtape sound like they were heavily influenced by 808s & Heartbreak to me.

"There Will Be Tears", "Novacane", "Lovecrimes"..

[louder]

Just think of all the rappers who attempt to sing on their tracks nowadays, despite not being vocally trained: Drake, J. Cole, Future, Chance the Rapper, Kevin Gates, Fetty Wap, Young Thug, Freddie Gibbs, Tory Lanez.. Snoop's previous album was all singing.. and the list goes on and on.

Most of these dudes are on the radio as well. Kanye (and perhaps Wayne) made it trendy and acceptable.

[louder]

Kanye and Wayne are the most influential rappers for the new generation.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

i understand the distinction you were making, i didn't mean to imply that Kanye is trap music, i was saying my nusician's ear hears elements and structures of early Kanye music in later trap music. indeed i am in this regard agreeing that Kanye had influenced radio rap, BUT my caveat is that i feel older Kanye music is the influence not newer.

now while im not a fan of his music means i am not an expert on the production and instrumentation, it also means that i am a neutral observer, my observations are strictly based on "what is on the tape"

remember our brain's process music based on our experience, what we "want" to hear, this is why its important to have producers in the studio because (and i speak as a musician with some recording experience) when we sit down with our monitors frequently we don't hear ehat is strictly on the tape but what our inner muse wants to hear.

this is the same for music we listen to as fans.

so again, as a more neutral observer k "hear" early Kanye in trap music whether y'all agree with me or not.

i won't be forceful about a casual opinion that i have zero investment in, I'm just posting for the clarification Severian asked for

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

also i hate to break it to you but kanye didn't pioneer "singing" in rap, that style of singing is fundamental to west coast hip hop since its earliest days. east coast cadence was to rap at a talking pace, west coast cadence has always been to have a bit of lyrical song in the rap delivery, some of that old Soul music influence. indeed its what made west coast rap so appealing in early 90s when it hit the mainstream, its why at parties here we DANCE (correction, boogie) to our rap meanwhile back east folks just lean back

[pepper_green]

Such, do you do the backyard... 'boogie'?!?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

Such, do you do the backyard... 'boogie'?!?

you know it. c-walk too.. indeed i invented my own combo, i mix c-walking with reggae skanking for a dance my bredren named, "Rasta in the waterfall"

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

though if by backyard boogie you mean "nasty homegrown weed" no i haven't smoked that shit in over 15 yesrs

[noisereductions]

Best news ever

http://pitchfork.com/news/67671-la-r...l-be-released/

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

Just think of all the rappers who attempt to sing on their tracks nowadays, despite not being vocally trained: Drake, J. Cole, Future, Chance the Rapper, Kevin Gates, Fetty Wap, Young Thug, Freddie Gibbs, Tory Lanez.. Snoop's previous album was all singing.. and the list goes on and on.

Most of these dudes are on the radio as well. Kanye (and perhaps Wayne) made it trendy and acceptable.

There's my boy! My louder! Fucking a right motherfucker!

Not to mention Travi$ Scott, Desiigner, or any of the other disciples out there.

I think musically speaking 808's is Kanye's most influential work. It's impact hasn't gone away since the world woke up and realized the album was killer.
Some artists have successfully recreated or expanded upon the early Kanye sound, like Chance, and many have tried to pull a MBDTF out of their ass, like Wale, but pretty much EVERYONE has taken something from 808's.

[louder]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

Best news ever

http://pitchfork.com/news/67671-la-r...l-be-released/

"Reid said it was recorded before Phife Dawg passed away earlier this year, and that the entire group (including Jarobi White) was included."

Ok ok ok ok ok OKAY!!!

[Severian]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

Best news ever

http://pitchfork.com/news/67671-la-r...l-be-released/

SHPSHZS!

Whoah. What.

[pepper_green]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

you know it. c-walk too.. indeed i invented my own combo, i mix c-walking with reggae skanking for a dance my bredren named, "Rasta in the waterfall"

hey Such, are you aware Jimmy Page invented the c-walk?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeDdp6q-AkQ&t=7m44s

[louder]

New Frank Ocean music video, "Nikes": https://t.co/XTx0eF7vBD

..this was pretty epic.

Sounds like some kind of an interlude though. Just left me wanting more.. much more.

The low pitched voice was also pretty annoying. It's cool in small doses and served its purpose on the song, but I kept waiting for him to use his normal voice.

[louder]

 

Best part on the song.