[!@#$%!]

mexico has 3 matches ahead vs jamaica, panama, and costa rica. if they can't win they are fucking idiots. yes, they were robbed yesterday, but it's not like they had any clear chances either. they sucked hard.

usa plays: jamaica, panama, and honduras. honduras is 1st right now!

us is going to have an advantage in that jamaica match: it's only 3 days after jamaica-mexico, and mexico is going to give it all on that date (or there will be executions).

i can't believe i'm discussing these piddly teams as if they were contenders, but this is what is comes down to when serious teams fail. usa/mexico should be battling for first place far ahead of everyone else, not counting on snow and bad refs.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...NurJ9w9mNke41_

seriously, they should do one elimination for the american continent. there are south american teams who will be left out and are much better than these clowns.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i failed to see what the us team was trying to achieve. mexico, yes, they were trying to score, though the long balls at the start of the 2nd half didn't help them-- but the us? it was like... mud...

They had some key players out with injuries and quite a few on yellow cards. The game in the snow last week would've probably taken a lot out of them too. In those circumstances I imagine they were just holding on for a clean sheet in the hope they might grab a win through a set piece or something. Disappointing as a spectacle but quite practical from the US's perspective, given the situation. And there's enough games left for both teams for this result not to be a disaster for either (hopefully).

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

They had some key players out with injuries and quite a few on yellow cards. The game in the snow last week would've probably taken a lot out of them too. In those circumstances I imagine they were just holding on for a clean sheet in the hope they might grab a win through a set piece or something. Disappointing as a spectacle but quite practical from the US's perspective, given the situation. And there's enough games left for both teams for this result not to be a disaster for either (hopefully).

yeah, i mean, fuck, these national teams, at this stage, are often improvised and poorly cobbled together, i get that, i do. maybe with the exception of european teams with "big" leagues like germany, england, italy, spain, which have most of their players locally. in south america it's always a big scramble to get all the players home in time for the matches (and they arrive injured, etc).

AND yes, to squeak a 0-0 at the azteca stadium is a victory in itself, 100,000 mexicans ready to murder you is not an easy psychological hurdle to overcome. that in itself is a feat that mexico (and that shit ref) helped achieve.

but still, i didn't see any kind of shape or style anything to the team. like, i can't explain-- what they "stand" for in terms of... what is klinsmann trying to create? what kind of system is he using? honestly i haven't seen any of the previous matches so i don't know what they are coming from, all i got was... damarcus beasley and bradley defended well, and guzan did alright. who else played, i don't even noticed. when altidore got replaced i couldn't figure out why, but saw no difference after his replacement got in. brek shea i've seen play and he's an able attacker but (again) i can't remember what he did last night. i only remeber the mexicans (guardado, dos santos, chicharito failing). i remember their 4 defenders moving up and down in orderly fashion , their midfield trying to create, their attacks on both wings... you could see a team at work. usa just confused the shit out of me. maybe that was the tactic! ha ha ha. (no, seriously. maybe it was that: victory through obscurity. amorphous indecipherability. sun-tzu.)

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

but still, i didn't see any kind of shape or style anything to the team. like, i can't explain-- what they "stand" for in terms of... what is klinsmann trying to create? what kind of system is he using? honestly i haven't seen any of the previous matches so i don't know what they are coming from, all i got was... damarcus beasley and bradley defended well, and guzan did alright. who else played, i don't even noticed. when altidore got replaced i couldn't figure out why, but saw no difference after his replacement got in. brek shea i've seen play and he's an able attacker but (again) i can't remember what he did last night. i only remeber the mexicans (guardado, dos santos, chicharito failing). i remember their 4 defenders moving up and down in orderly fashion , their midfield trying to create, their attacks on both wings... you could see a team at work. usa just confused the shit out of me. maybe that was the tactic! ha ha ha. (no, seriously. maybe it was that: victory through obscurity. amorphous indecipherability. sun-tzu.)

I've not been following them much either but what you say about their lack of shape and focus seems to tally with criticisms Klinsmann's (allegedly) getting from within the team itself. Not many teams look good in qualifiers, though.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I've not been following them much either but what you say about their lack of shape and focus seems to tally with criticisms Klinsmann's (allegedly) getting from within the team itself. Not many teams look good in qualifiers, though.

right, i made that caveat (re: crappy qualifiers) early in my comment, but still, it was like watching "Team WTF". had no idea the players were complaining about that but it was plain to see yesterday.

my guess then is perhaps klinsmann is so confident we'll qualify that he's just experimenting with different people in different positions trying to see what happens. (???) i think i've seen the word "experimental" thrown somewhere.

speaking of crappy qualifiers-- spain 1 finland 1? i would have loved to witness that. also (for better reasons) alaba's goal for austria.

[demonrail666]

I'd say it was experimental but by necessity rather than design. With so many players out and with the stakes so high, it's hard to see what else he could've done. The only thing that may have backfired was his decision to drop a fully fit Bocanegra, but even that's just a massive great 'what if?'.

Realistically, I put the USA at about the same level as this current England side. In the right group and all things going to plan (including actually qualifying) I'd say both countries will have done well to get as far as the quarter finals.

[TheMadcapLaughs]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

speaking of crappy qualifiers-- spain 1 finland 1? i would have loved to witness that. also (for better reasons) alaba's goal for austria.

i saw the spain game. it was boring as fuck. spain passing the ball around trying and failing to penetrate finlands 11 man defense. finland got lucky and got them on the counter(of course).

[demonrail666]

I love watching Spain when things go right for them but I do find them pretty boring when they're not. There's never a sense they're gonna try anything different when things aren't working out. That's obviously just a mark of their confidence (and their success obviously vindicates it as an overall tactic) but, I agree, it doesn't always make for good entertainment.

[Trama]

chelsea

lel

[_slavo_]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

yeah, i mean, fuck, these national teams, at this stage, are often improvised and poorly cobbled together, i get that, i do. maybe with the exception of european teams with "big" leagues like germany, england, italy, spain, which have most of their players locally. in south america it's always a big scramble to get all the players home in time for the matches (and they arrive injured, etc).

AND yes, to squeak a 0-0 at the azteca stadium is a victory in itself, 100,000 mexicans ready to murder you is not an easy psychological hurdle to overcome. that in itself is a feat that mexico (and that shit ref) helped achieve.

but still, i didn't see any kind of shape or style anything to the team. like, i can't explain-- what they "stand" for in terms of... what is klinsmann trying to create? what kind of system is he using? honestly i haven't seen any of the previous matches so i don't know what they are coming from, all i got was... damarcus beasley and bradley defended well, and guzan did alright. who else played, i don't even noticed. when altidore got replaced i couldn't figure out why, but saw no difference after his replacement got in. brek shea i've seen play and he's an able attacker but (again) i can't remember what he did last night. i only remeber the mexicans (guardado, dos santos, chicharito failing). i remember their 4 defenders moving up and down in orderly fashion , their midfield trying to create, their attacks on both wings... you could see a team at work. usa just confused the shit out of me. maybe that was the tactic! ha ha ha. (no, seriously. maybe it was that: victory through obscurity. amorphous indecipherability. sun-tzu.)

I was watching the Honduras-Mexico qualifier match in a pub in Cancun a week ago. Man, the Mexicans are mental when it comes to fandom. When Hernandez scored his first, the waiters in the pub started jumping around like crazy.
I just loved Mexico, i can't help it. Must get back there one time.

[!@#$%!]

at half-time, bayern is beating hamburg 5-0

------

UPDATE: BAYERN MUNICH 9 - HAMBURGER SV 2!

i couldn't believe it.

pizarro scored 4.

only downside to this goalfest was how hamburg's goals came from corners which were served by van der vaart. i mean, good for hamgurg, but it shows a bayern vulnerability in corners that i hope isn't evident this coming tuesday.

TUESDAY!!!

meanwhile i think bayern just outright won the bundesliga. with 7 dates to go and 20 points ahead of dortmund... okay they just need 2 points to be beyond reach. but damn!

[demonrail666]

Big win for West Ham today. They're still not mathematically safe from relegation but it now looks a lot brighter. Massive win for Wigan, too. Can Martinez drag them from the brink again?

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

UPDATE: BAYERN MUNICH 9 - HAMBURGER SV 2!

[!@#$%!]

alright guys so i owe you a backtrack of sorts re: 'Merica!

I was reading some articles re: the Estadio Azteca match that show (or invent?) a strategy at work, albeit one that was hard for me to read because I love attacking football and I always read a game from that perspective, so i'm just looking at 1/2 game instead of the whole thing (which is bad).

For example, evaluators were saying that some US defender, Omar Gonzalez, did a great job and took top points-- to me, I didn't notice the fucker, what I saw instead was a failure of the Mexican attack. Yes, I'm biased, I like goals, and my eyes follow the attack and blur the defense and teh pitch as one undifferentiated mass (eh, i exaggerate).

Anyway here are the links if anyone cares to read:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...alifier-mexico

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...ng-made-azteca

and the "main" article that links those 2:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...rt-mexico-draw

in a way the armchair guy confirms what i said (though i didn't have the background info that this team can't generate chances from possession--hA!):

This US team has shown no ability to generate chances from possession, and have been vulnerable defensively when they push high. Klinsmann's new style that he's tried to initiate has resulted in fewer goals scored, and blown leads in all four road qualifiers.

So the only pragmatic thing to do was stay deep and defend, try to hit on the counter and hope to get a set piece. The last two didn't really work out – and again, the US had a bit of luck from the referee in getting out of there with the result – but there's nobody in the US camp, and no fan in their right mind, who wouldn't have happily taken a point from this game.


So, okay, we suck and we adapt. That's fine.

But on the other hand, this is the spelling-out of the defensive strategy that I appear to have missed completely:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...ance-vs-mexico

so-- they closed spaces, they forced mexico into the long ball (i saw that, didn't noticed it had been "forced" but okay). however, "let's build triangles" looks right out of an elementary school text, no? i mean, isn't that like, a basic feature of the passing game and not a "special secret weapon"? unless i'm missing something.

in any case, klinsmann is an infinitely better tactician than i am, and he evidently sun-tzu'ed me, and i can't read a defense the way i should (and i should learn-- really).

nice video w/ player interviews on that page too.

[demonrail666]

I broadly agree with the point made in one of the links, about USA's defense containing Mexico, although in fairness they rode their luck a bit, too, thanks to some poor Mexican finishing and a bit of help from some dubious decisions by the referee. Personally I don't think USA were as bad as some critics are saying, or as good as others are maintaining. The big issue seems to be where their goals will come from, a situation not helped by Klinsmann's apparent falling out with Bocanegra.

Back to the Prem, though, O'Neil getting sacked from Sunderland makes sense in terms of performance, but at this stage of the season? The rumour is he's being replaced by Mark Hughes. Hardly someone I'd associate with boosting morale. It amazes me how Hughes still finds work in the Prem.

[!@#$%!]

you mean this?

http://www.mlssoccer.com/blog/post/2...ision-omit-him

doesn't sound like a falling out to me, i.e., not a clash of personalities, but a coaching decision (system/strategy/etc).

he's barely played on spanish 2nd division and is going to be 34 next year... i'd prolly groom someone else too.

---

ps gonna check out that west ham match now.

[demonrail666]

Another rumour is that Di Canio might be replacing him. That'd be entertaining, at least. I love Di Canio to bits and he's always said he wants to manage West Ham but I could see it all going horribly wrong if he got the chance. A great player, an even greater legend but not someone that I think is particularly cut out for management.

[h8kurdt]

TBH I've always said that it's a rarity to find someone who was a great player and is also a great manager.

[demonrail666]

So Di Canio it is. David Milliband has apparently resigned from the club's board because of the new manager's fascist politics.

The move immediately proved controversial, David Miliband, the former Labour MP, stepping down as a non executive director in protest at Di Canio's political past in which he has admitted to being a fascist but not a racist. Miliband said: "I wish Sunderland AFC all success in the future. It is a great institution that does a huge amount for the north-east and I wish the team very well over the next vital seven games. However, in the light of the new manager's past political statements, I think it right to step down."

 

[!@#$%!]

holy shit!!!

[h8kurdt]

It's alright, lads! He's a facist, not a racist.