[jon boy]

American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)

Faulty records enable terrorists, illegal aliens and criminals to purchase guns. Over a two and a half-year period, at least 9,976 convicted felons and other illegal buyers in 46 states obtained guns because of inadequate records.

• Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence)
• The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
• American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control

[Rob Instigator]

what they should do is to make music and art education compulsory. make every citizen have to learn to play an instrument, any instrument.

I think this would helpthe mental health state of the country, the violence, the feeling of disenfranchised people, and bring much joy to everyone's lives.

[Rob Instigator]

jon boy, do those stats include 18-19 year olds, who are actualy adults?


Note that the CDC child gun death figures are typically half of the figures that the gun control lobby publishes. The difference is in the definition of a child. The gun control lobby counts young adults that are 18 or 19 years old as children, but they do not count 20 year olds as children. You can choose from one of two possible reasons, depending on your level of cynicism: 1. The standard CDC age groups used to go from 0-19, 20-39, etc and the gun control lobby couldn't figure out how to select a custom age group. 2. Counting 18 and 19 year olds as children doubles the number of so-called child gun deaths, and more child gun deaths means more support for gun control.
In 1999 there were 1776 gun deaths in the 0 through 17 age group and 3385 gun deaths in the 0 through 19 age group. By subtraction we find that there were a whopping 1609 gun deaths in just the 18 through 19 age group. Historically the 18 through 24 age group is the highest crime-committing group. At age 18 part-time drug dealers leave school and become full-time drug dealers. Despite the propaganda from the gun control lobby, criminals in general and drug dealers in particular are the group of so-called children most likely to be shot by their fellow criminals. You can verify this by reading the local gun death news stories in any city newspaper. School shootings are so rare that every one gets national television coverage, but drug dealers are shot so often that they are barely mentioned in their local newspaper.

[jon boy]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

jon boy, do those stats include 18-19 year olds, who are actualy adults?


Note that the CDC child gun death figures are typically half of the figures that the gun control lobby publishes. The difference is in the definition of a child. The gun control lobby counts young adults that are 18 or 19 years old as children, but they do not count 20 year olds as children. You can choose from one of two possible reasons, depending on your level of cynicism: 1. The standard CDC age groups used to go from 0-19, 20-39, etc and the gun control lobby couldn't figure out how to select a custom age group. 2. Counting 18 and 19 year olds as children doubles the number of so-called child gun deaths, and more child gun deaths means more support for gun control.
In 1999 there were 1776 gun deaths in the 0 through 17 age group and 3385 gun deaths in the 0 through 19 age group. By subtraction we find that there were a whopping 1609 gun deaths in just the 18 through 19 age group. Historically the 18 through 24 age group is the highest crime-committing group. At age 18 part-time drug dealers leave school and become full-time drug dealers. Despite the propaganda from the gun control lobby, criminals in general and drug dealers in particular are the group of so-called children most likely to be shot by their fellow criminals. You can verify this by reading the local gun death news stories in any city newspaper. School shootings are so rare that every one gets national television coverage, but drug dealers are shot so often that they are barely mentioned in their local newspaper.

i guess you can argue the definition of a child all day, people still get blown away for no reason.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

what they should do is to make music and art education compulsory. make every citizen have to learn to play an instrument, any instrument.

I think this would helpthe mental health state of the country, the violence, the feeling of disenfranchised people, and bring much joy to everyone's lives.

That would be ideal but sadly Rob, not everyone is like this. The majority of people aren't interested in making any artistic statement or doing something as productive as creating music or art. Like I said though, it's an ideal thought.

[GeneticKiss]

^Yeah, I've found most people want just to get rich/laid and only use music as background for fun times with friends.

And even then, I'm not sure that even if everyone could play an instrument they'd produce something listenable. Best case scenario is a utopia in which the arts flourish, but it's more likely we'd end up with some sort of karaoke on musical instruments...

[ploesj]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Japan has one of the highest suicide rates of any industrialized nation and their citizens are not allowed to own firearms either.
In 2009, over 30,000 people killed themselves in japan. 12th straight year of that many at least
"Common methods of suicide are jumping in front of trains, leaping off high places, hanging, or overdosing on medication"


the correlation with guns is very tentative.

The WHO (world heath organization) has numbers on this stuff.
http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/

shit is real bad in Lithuania, Belarus, Latvia, Slovenia...

i think that mainly has to do with cultural differences: failure is not at all accepted in japan, and this leads people to seeing suicide as their only way out a lot quicker...

when your business fails in europe or america, it is embarassing and humiliating at most, but it's not like the ultimate shame in your life, ith no solution.

oh and suicidal people really need help. they get in a condition where they seem to be stuck in a tunnel and all they see is the end of that tunnel (death) as the only solution to their problems. it is impossible for them to see any other way to fix things. my uncle had been going through a depressed phase, and one event (his partner going away after a fight) tipped him over the edge and left him unable to see the circle of family and friends around him, ready for him (they were there, and they were at his funeral too, all 800 of them). all he could think of was death as the solution so he got a shotgun and blew his brains out in the bathroom. no one had a chance to save him, and it left a huge group of people behind with an enormous feeling of sadness and guilt. another talented and nice guy lost: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP0uGOvuVsU

(my uncle is singing on the right, on the left is his friend who posted this video. he killed himself earlier this year, not being able to cope with his best mate leaving like that, and left behind a wife and two young children)

[dale_gribble]

firing a gun is fun as fuck so i'm gonna buy one and shoot it at inanimate objects. would i ever shoot someone? it depends, and hopefully i'll never have to find out. as for laws i could give two shits right now, laws are jokes anyway. oh, statistics are a joke too.

[knox]

Well, I give up. It's a cultural thing, unfortunately your cultural thing feeds an industry that feeds the cultural thing back even more, and then feeds an endless cycle of power/death/horror that is witnessed by other poorer nations.

I'll get back to it when I develop ploesj powers of saying what I'm saying without sounding like a total bitch.

[knox]

But I'll leave you with some questions:

Is everyone fit to have a gun?
Do a few hours of traning, no criminal background and not being admitted into a mental home make someone worthy of having something in their hands that put others at risk?

It's insanity.
That's even easier than getting a driver's permit, no? Doesn't that seem odd?

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by knox

But I'll leave you with some questions:

Is everyone fit to have a gun?
Do a few hours of traning, no criminal background and not being admitted into a mental home make someone worthy of having something in their hands that put others at risk?

It's insanity.
That's even easier than getting a driver's permit, no? Doesn't that seem odd?

Question 1: No. But I think the number of folks fit to carry one no doubt greatly outnumbers that of those unfit. Again, most people don't want to kill someone...

Question 2: If that's truely the case, like so many have said, we shouldn't be allowed to own cars. More people die by automobile accidents each year than guns...not even worth looking up the statistics on that one it's so obvious....

No offense, but I think you just enjoy having something to bitch about.I can relate some days.

No offense part two: Should someone who has openly stated having emotional/mental issues in the past be an authority on this issue? I think "yes", for yr own life. maybe it's crazy for you to own one, not everyone else.

[jon boy]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

Question 1: No. But I think the number of folks fit to carry one no doubt greatly outnumbers that of those unfit. Again, most people don't want to kill someone...

Question 2: If that's truely the case, like so many have said, we shouldn't be allowed to own cars. More people die by automobile accidents each year than guns...not even worth looking up the statistics on that one it's so obvious....

No offense, but I think you just enjoy having something to bitch about.I can relate some days.

No offense part two: Should someone who has openly stated having emotional/mental issues in the past be an authority on this issue? I think "yes", for yr own life. maybe it's crazy for you to own one, not everyone else.

the pro gun people keep coming up with silly comparisons like cars kill people too and etc. cars take you from place to place, guns are made for shooting things. maybe you just have a really stupid blind spot? thats how it seems anyway. i am sure the deer population can be kept in check some other way.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by jon boy

the pro gun people keep coming up with silly comparisons like cars kill people too and etc. cars take you from place to place, guns are made for shooting things. maybe you just have a really stupid blind spot? thats how it seems anyway. i am sure the deer population can be kept in check some other way.

Not with all the wilderness around here, no way. + deer meat is super tasty.

[knox]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

No offense part two: Should someone who has openly stated having emotional/mental issues in the past be an authority on this issue? I think "yes", for yr own life. maybe it's crazy for you to own one, not everyone else.

says the one who adores charles manson.

I must be completely crazy, yes.

I mean, I'm so crazy I trust facts and numbers over personal views. That's how crazy I am.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by knox

says the one who adores charles manson.

I must be completely crazy, yes.

I mean, I'm so crazy I trust facts and numbers over personal views. That's how crazy I am.

OOOOOoOooOOOh....

Charlie isn't in a mental hospital...again, please get your "facts" straight.

[dale_gribble]

have you ever fired a gun before knox?

[ann ashtray]

KNox knows a lot about guns, she's read the statistics. She doesn't need to fire one.

[pbradley]

The psychology of owning a firearm is interesting.

How many buy a gun just to have some outlet to prove their quasi-individuality? Like buying a pack of cigarettes once you turn 16. Sway's all about that, isn't he.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by pbradley

The psychology of owning a firearm is interesting.

How many buy a gun just to have some outlet to prove their quasi-individuality? Like buying a pack of cigarettes once you turn 18. Sway's all about that, isn't he.

Again, never have owned a gun, but see what you are getting at. I DID buy into buying cigarettes (at 19...) because I liked the effect they had on me while drunk. This slowly became a full blown addiction. I must admit, even before smoking I thought it was cool in some strange symbolic way. Definately very sexy. I remember seeing some of the older girls smoke when in middle school, a mouth watering image of "I don't give a shit". Course at least some of 'em did, that's why they started smoking to begin with.

But guns, nah man. I have fired a rifle on a few occcasions. Didn't do much for me, but I can see it having the same stress relief benefits on some as I get out of playing my guitar. 'Course, i think my guitar offers a sense of "quasi-individuality". Almost any decision anyone ever makes sans shitting/eating/sleeping does.

Kinda like a strange friend of mine who likes to take her laptop into the restroom and take pics of herself while pissing. Totally pointless, but still...sexy.

Guns are def. sexy in that "I'm not gonna take any shit" kinda way. Course it can be more about the image, but....at the same time, I ain't thinking about breakin' into their houses. Best of both worlds, ya know?

[ann ashtray]

Oh, the joys of replying before someone finishes modifying their posts.

Guess pbradley changed his mind + decided most start smoking at sixteen (as opposed to 18) as a method of quasi-individuality. Boy, I almost thought he wasn't cool for second there, glad he changed it.