[knox]

well. i just want you to know i can´t burn my bras, i need them, for support.
and... my ultimate goal is male castration. but thats just a fetish.

[Satan]

so today i listened to standing in the way of control, the song
and i like it a lot

that's about it though




fuck bras. its not a feminist issue. its a comfort issue.



"they try to break her" lol ain't nobody gonna break that girl, she is SOLID.

[knox]

you dont like bras?

if i didnt have bras my life would be hell.

[Satan]

i hate them. torture device.

[knox]

my definition of torture= my giant tits bouncing painfully if I try to run.

[atsonicpark]

wizard alibrataries

[Satan]

i don't run.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by infinitemusic

I don't like to make "one" think anything. I state my opinions. If you think I'm talking about stuff on the internet to impress you or anyone, you're either really stupid or totally egomaniacal.

The thing is, what you posted was too idiotic to make anyone think at all, unless they are a no-brainer. You come across like the classic example of someone who gets called out because of the inane shit they post, and then you come up with all this defensive crap about impressing with knowledge etc. It's not working for this poster, though.

And knox, sunshine - I realised from early on in this thread that you talk a lot of shite (which you can't even back up because you're too busy being some angry American feminist, perhaps?), let alone wanting to engage in an intelligent conversation with you. Do you know what's insecure? Assuming that everyone thinks like you on a thread, when I could show you it's not exactly the case. Do you know why? Because I find your little angry girl attitude too amusing to witness.
You wouldn't last 5 minutes in any serious debate about the smell of a 3 days old used condom, so take the internet opportunity to make your mark, because that's as much (deluded) empowerement as you're getting. Pfft.

You might also want to know that I don't address women with ''bitch''. I just used it because YOU said that you are one, so I picked up on the inherent contradiction of talking about women rights, and using language like that.

[demonrail666]

Something that I think gets missed in a lot of the more overtly 'political' music so far mentioned is the importance of infrastructure. It's what seperates someone like Bob Dylan singing about political change and a band like say Amon Duul who rarely sang about politics but were infinitely more political, in my eyes, due to the way in which they organised themselves as a band. (I think Genteel Death was making a similar point in relation to Plastic People of The Universe, who managed to be political without using vocals at all and, more tangentially, Notyourfiend's point about 'Starfield Road'.)

Most political music done in the Dylan vein ends up sounding banal because it lacks any kind of self-critique. Dylan told us what was wrong with 'them' and 'us' while rarely thinking to address his own mode of operation. Bands like Amon Duul and Plastic People are far more interesting (and politically useful) in that their first target of critique wasn't something as safely distant as 'the system' but rather the ways in which certain structures that arose simply out of them functioning as a band might've ultimately supported those very ideas they were trying to overturn.

Bands like Crass, Scritti Politti and Gang of Four tried to fuse the two. However I tend to find their approach to the concept of what a band is (or can be) on a structural level far more interesting than any of the often far less thought out slogans that tended to pepper their lyrics.

[atsonicpark]

My existence is political.

[Glice]

Itt: Asp <3 Kkk

[_slavo_]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

(I think Genteel Death was making a similar point in relation to Plastic People of The Universe, who managed to be political without using vocals at all and, more tangentially, Notyourfiend's point about 'Starfield Road'.)

not true. Plastic People did use vocals.

[Genteel Death]

Yep, slavo is right, my mistake there. Plastic People Of The Universe have 2 (3?) vocalists, I think. And they have lyrics too, even though I always assume they don't have a politcal content from some of their interviews. Translation would very appreciated, slavo. I was referring more to the fact that they aren't voluntarily political band, they just go thrown into the whole protest scene because of the repression they experienced (going to jail etc) ragarding the music they play/ed.

[demonrail666]

Fair enough about Plastic People. My basic point though is that regardless of whether a band intend to be political or not they can have a political affect simply by existing in the way that they do during a given time or place. In that sense Sly and the Family Stone were political not just because they occasionally sang songs with a political content but because their very existence (as a band that included black and white members) managed to critique certain race-based issues very much in the air at the time. SatFS didn't so much make political statements in their songs as in their very being. Just as a woman making a film in Iran is a political statement regardless of what that film may be about.

[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

The thing is, what you posted was too idiotic to make anyone think at all, unless they are a no-brainer. You come across like the classic example of someone who gets called out because of the inane shit they post, and then you come up with all this defensive crap about impressing with knowledge etc. It's not working for this poster, though.

And knox, sunshine - I realised from early on in this thread that you talk a lot of shite (which you can't even back up because you're too busy being some angry American feminist, perhaps?), let alone wanting to engage in an intelligent conversation with you. Do you know what's insecure? Assuming that everyone thinks like you on a thread, when I could show you it's not exactly the case. Do you know why? Because I find your little angry girl attitude too amusing to witness.
You wouldn't last 5 minutes in any serious debate about the smell of a 3 days old used condom, so take the internet opportunity to make your mark, because that's as much (deluded) empowerement as you're getting. Pfft.

You might also want to know that I don't address women with ''bitch''. I just used it because YOU said that you are one, so I picked up on the inherent contradiction of talking about women rights, and using language like that.

You know, a lot of feminists are all about re-claiming the word bitch. The bitch manifesto is a famous piece of work. They see it as being about takin back the language that has harmed them and admiring the qualities that have historically gotten women in a whole lot of trouble.
http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/bitch.htm

Also, I think that you are giving knox too hard of a time.

And Demonrail - of course, you managed to get down to the point, you professor you.

[Genteel Death]

I agree that a band like Sonic Youth have some sort of political relevance for other musicians in terms of how they operated throughout the years with the sort of music they play, save for some recent developments that I'm not sure about (the whole mp3 bonus thing seems rich when Thurston Moore on an interview posted on here says that he hates them, or something along that line). I get the impression that they overall managed pretty well, even though they didn't spell out a politcial agenda as such.

Bands shouldn't really take it in their hands to address issues where they ultimately have the last word on, unless they distill their content for creative consumption. It's great that they can be a vessel to channel the feelings of discontent generated by whatever affront is mounted on who and where, but really, if a clear separation of roles is kept in an order which clarifies better what the political is, and what the creative can actually achieve in order to represent, voluntarily or not, its momentum, there would be less confusion, and better music. Or something like that.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by notyourfiend

You know, a lot of feminists are all about re-claiming the word bitch. The bitch manifesto is a famous piece of work. They see it as being about takin back the language that has harmed them and admiring the qualities that have historically gotten women in a whole lot of trouble.
http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/bitch.htm

That's exactly what I was playing on when I called knox a bitch several times on this thread. Isn't it a major contraddiction that she has then asked me to stop calling her a word she used to describe herself in the first place? The word ''bitch'' is inoffenisve when used as a light-hearted exchange between people who know where they stand when it comes to female emancipation, yet it still remains a mean-spirited, derogatory word used to describe a woman in the wrong mouth. Same with the word ''nigger'' and black people.

[notyourfiend]

I think that it's about the intent of how you are using the word, and in this case you are def using it as an insult. But whatever, what I'm trying to say is that I really don't think that knox deserves to be berated this much.

[Genteel Death]

Did I, now? Are you sure a little victimism isn't showing its face on this thread? I should be the only one to know if I used it as an insult in the first place, surely?

I'm still of the opinion that knox hasn't really got anything much to say on several subjects, she certainly makes points that I've heard or read about many times before, but fails at explaing what's making her post what.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Nefeli

i want to write in here. it wont be much of a contribution, just my thoughts that at some level even confuse me and i have a terrible headache now.
...i need to go and stop typing things that wont help this thread much.

Pssh to both of these statements. Your contribution is always massively appreciated, chéz Glice at least.

I'm going to go and read a fanzine about feminism as I take a bath. Mmm. Afternoon baths.